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Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

igorslab.de

141–150 of 182 posts

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#141

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

We seem to be reaching the point where I expect it'll soon make more sense to consider the GPU as the heart of the computer and the CPU as a peripheral.

The CPU is a peripheral ;-)

(See Slide 5): https://papers.put.as/papers/firmware/2014/2014-10_Breakpoin...

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can an electric oven be just 12% efficient? I suppose: 1. You often have to pre-heat the oven, so during that time, you are not cooking food 2. The oven is rarely full, so instead of heating food, you are heating the oven 3. The oven remains hot after the food is removed, but you could argue that's low-grade heat, unsuitable for cooking If my electric oven is just 12% efficient, I'd like to know why (and how I ca…

It's not hard to understand, the energy required to heat up food vs energy consumed by the appliance. https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/06/f23/conventi... TLDR: they measure with a metal block.

> It's not hard to understand

Please don't patronise!

My oven, on full power, draws 2KW (at least, that's what the labels on my fuze-box suggest). If only 12% of that energy is used to heat the food, then the oven amounts to a 200W food cooker, combined with an 1800W electric heater (I rounded down to 10% to make the reckoning easier).

I live in a studio flat; my oven is in my living room. How come I can survive without A/C? But I seem to be able to roast and bake without my home warming up.

My microwave is an old cheap one, with a max. power of 700W. Assuming that's 100% efficient, then it should cook food about 3.5 times faster than the inefficient oven, I guess; and it does. So it does seem that the oven is inefficient. But why? Where is the lost energy going?

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#143

This looks like some abomination of the ancient molex drive connection with part of an ATX main connection. At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply?

> At which point does the GPU get its own dedicated power supply? This is true in many machines already for several years, if you look at the machines the hard to find GPUs are actually in. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is a market force behind this new PCIe standard.

Yeah, I was recently looking for an ATX motherboard extension cable to hack apart for an evening project, and all the results were for splitters to connect extra PSUs to the mobo's Power On signal for mining rigs.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#145

600 watts? That's one bar of a two-bar electric fire; in my youth, that two-bar fire was the only thing keeping some families warm. I mean, that power all gets turned into heat anyway in the end; so sure, if you need more heating, forget the two-bar fire, and buy a graphics controller instead - playing games with the two-bar fire isn't a good plan. I don't get why they can't make efficient GPUs. I mean, I do get that…

GPUs are efficient. That's why (some) people get benefits from throwing lots of power at them. If there were a smaller difference between a 200W part and a 300W part, fewer people would upgrade.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#146
post #27

I’ve always thought of gaming as a virtuous low-impact form of entertainment, insofar as it displaces real-world pursuits like foreign ski holidays, gasoline-powered road trips, or land-hogging golf courses. But burning nearly a kilowatt on a gaming rig feels like a step too far. Sure, the power could be sourced from wind or solar plants, but there’s still a level of excessive conspicuous consumption going on here th…

excessive conspicuous consumption

Energy is a proxy for accomplishment and development. Humanity's #1 goal should be to maximize energy use per capita while minimizing energy use per activity, such that every human is doing as many desirable activities as possible.

Gaming at 1kW for an hour costs 30 cents or less in electricity. As others have mentioned indirectly, going for a Sunday drive to see the changing leaves uses more energy. A space heater uses more power.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, because if you plugged a device needing 600W using an MPX connector, it wouldn't work at all, since MPX can only do 500W. Here's the thing. When you have a lot of amps, they create noise in wires next to them. They'll also need thick wires and will get hot. When you have a lot of volts, they'll go through shielding and start a fire. Do you really want to place something with a lot of amps and volts next to…

Given the RF noise and the heavy-duty electrical engineering, wouldn't it be better to isolate the GPU in its own external enclosure?

I think the point is you want the power run separately from the data. And you want the data lines to be short to reduce noise and loss.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#149

I'll be honest, it's very hard for me to imagine what I would do that would demand anywhere near 600 watts for a graphics card alone. I mean my PC can draw at most 120 watts and that feels like a lot, although the PC is pretty old by now. All of this for crypto? How many games are there out there that draw anywhere near this level of wattage just for graphics?

Gotta think about the scale here. 4k gaming pushes 8 million pixels, 60 times per second. Those pixels are being calculated from light bouncing off of meshes, each formed of 10,000-100,000 triangles. More triangles makes your objects look smoother and rounder. Each triangle also has texture information that dictates its color, as well as some specific properties such as reflectiveness. To achieve highly-realistic video games (and CGI), you simply have to have that level of complexity. Even then, the way light is calculated in video games is not realistic at all, it is done that way for significant performance/efficiency gains. Ray tracing is now being added, which is how light behaves in the real world, but that cranks the computational complexity through the roof. That's why it takes thousands of CPU cores 25 hours to render one single frame for a Pixar movie, they go for realistic physics/light.

Re: Up to 600 watts of power for graphics cards with the new PCIe 5.0 powerconnector

#150
post #10

Assuming you can install two GPUs using 600W, that's basically running a hair dryer in your desktop since most of the energy is converted to heat.

Why is this being downvoted? If you have a kilowatt (I wanted to type that out instead of write KW to emphasize it) coming out of the wall that energy has to go somewhere. Literally warm your room during winter and turn down your heater.

And make your AC work even harder during summer or if you live in a tropical/desert/…etc. climate.
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