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Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

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Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#141

Post by verdagon »

enjo wrote: post #107
kortilla wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not a solved problem. The utilities have no reason to innovate at that point. In my local municipality I have no way to choose renewable energy apart from building my own power plant on my roof. That’s a complete failure of these government granted monopolies.

The regulating bodies of those utilities work hard to create incentives for them to innovate. I spent four years of my career working on energy programs with major utilities around the country in which they tried to incentive reductions in energy usage. Which is a curious statement: why would a electrical utility want people to use less electricity? The reason is because the regulatory agencies created incentives wit…

I'd love to hear more, what kinds of incentives? Is it something like, "if you get X efficiency, you get N more dollars"?

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#142

Post by jacurtis »

CPLX wrote: post #62
djyaz1200 wrote: post #12

Tech companies that reach monopoly scale (like Apple, Facebook, Amazon) should have to disclose all their agreements and honor a "Most Favored Nation" clause giving all companies the same pricing and access as the best negotiated agreement with any one company. This is the most reasonable way I can think of without breaking them up to prevent them picking winners and losers as new opportunities emerge. If you have a…

We could also just put a tax of 100% on any revenue in excess of $10bn a year and nip this entire society-destroying problem in the bud.

While I would definitely entertain extreme tax tiers at high revenue limits (like $10B/yr), it is important to note that there is value in Apple making money.

There are a lot of jobs created between the $10B and $1T levels. And as citizens of Apple's home nation, it greatly benefits us that those high-quality jobs are available.

A 100% tax (or even 80%) tax would discourage a lot of products from existing. Apple would probably move down to simply offering just phones and apps only and removing everything else. I know that sounds good in theory, but there are indirect benefits for these other services that they offer, in addition to jobs. It also bolster's California's economy all the way down to bodegas, bars, restaurants, and hobby shops.

So an alternative tax like 60% on revenues above $50B that can not be deducted against might be a more reasonable alternative.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#143

Post by tablespoon »

ksec wrote: post #83

I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else. I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to c…

What does IAP stand for in this context?

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#144

Post by asdff »

tornato7 wrote: post #120
jobu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. As a developer I've often felt outright hostility coming from Apple developer relations, and maybe it's this lack of a partnership mentality. They generally treat end users really well, but it's like they see external developers as some sort of parasite feeding on their products. In my experience it's difficult to get actual technical help unless you personally know someone internal to Apple.

From Apple's perspective, developers are either creating competing products or products that Apple will eventually compete with. Either way they would rather not help.

My tinfoil hat theory is they allow the jailbreaking scene to persist instead of shoring up holes within a second of each jailbreak's release because they poach tweak ideas. When looking at the overlap between popular early jailbreak tweaks and features that were added to iOS over the years, this really doesn't seem farfetched.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#145

Post by jacurtis »

ksec wrote: post #83

I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else. I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to c…

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue.

AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netflix has yet to determine that it is better to build it themselves.

Apple by comparison demands 15% which is 3.5x as much of a cut. Apple provides credit card processing, and approval into the App Store (plus according to a comment in this email, it sounds like they keep Netflix in the App Store promotion rotation as "free" ad-space). This isn't anywhere near the value that AWS provides, despite demanding a much higher premium. Of course this is the "generous" 15% IAP cut, instead of the normal 30% which is even more atrocious.

Apple seems to maintain the expectation that they deserve 30% of revenue from massive corporations like Netflix, Amazon, etc.. Even the "generous" 15% fee is quite atrocious, especially considering the fact that Apple provides next to no value for Netflix, if anything they are a pain in their side or a necessary evil for Netflix.

Apple is wildly delusional on the value that they provide. It is absolutely no surprise to me that Netflix would consider not allowing IAP subscriptions at all. They already have the marketing power to force people to subscribe at their website. I am surprised Netflix is honestly being as understanding on this issue as they seem to be.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#146

Post by mikeryan »

throwawy8233qo wrote: post #10

I know HBO Inc had the same 15% deal, at least back in 2018. I was on an email chain where some HBO execs mentioned this, and it was a revelation. As a vendor of iOS apps we hinted to other customers that the 30% cut is negotiable for providers strategic to Apple, without giving away HBO’s deal.

The Video Partner Program which takes 15% went into effect in 2016.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#147

Post by asdff »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #93

I just wish the damn AppleTV apps worked better together. I use AppleTV for all my viewing (which isn’t really that much), and one thing that really annoys me, is the crap quality of the apps; even marqée-brand apps. I’m constantly having to reboot the unit to get out of “lockups.” Wouldn’t be surprised if a big reason that Netflix and Apple don’t play well with each other, is that they can’t code it (as opposed to n…

I have the same issues on xbox with an order of magnitude more powerful hardware. Don't think its apples fault. When you think about it these companies don't have any incentive not to offer crapware software, since they compete with eachother on catalogue rather than ux which is 'good enough.'

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#148

Post by garblegarble »

jacurtis wrote: post #145
ksec wrote: post #83

I am pretty sure I read something similar before. Probably from Benedict Evans or somewhere else. I think the most important issue from these email isn't the lack of Alternative App Store, IAP, or 70/30 split. It is that Apple Execs has Zero understanding of how other business works especially with respect to Internet or Software Services. They continue to think Netflix as a physical product ( As they often like to c…

For comparison Netflix spends about $1.2 Billion dollars per year on AWS (Amazon Web Services). Their total revenue last year was 27.5B. So that means that AWS fees account for 4.3% of Netflix's revenue. AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netf…

>AWS is streaming video, operating hundreds of edge location CDN locations, and everything else running on expensive server infrastructure. AWS has real serious costs with offering that service, to the point that Netflix has yet to determine that it is better to build it themselves.

Somewhat off the core topic, but netflix run their own CDN (I also don't see any evidence for that 1.2 billion AWS bill figure, can you provide a link? Their latest SEC filing doesn't separate cloud service costs from the running of their Open Connect CDN)

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#149

Post by pornel »

tornato7 wrote: post #120
jobu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. As a developer I've often felt outright hostility coming from Apple developer relations, and maybe it's this lack of a partnership mentality. They generally treat end users really well, but it's like they see external developers as some sort of parasite feeding on their products. In my experience it's difficult to get actual technical help unless you personally know someone internal to Apple.

From Apple's perspective, developers are either creating competing products or products that Apple will eventually compete with. Either way they would rather not help.

And the arrogance and entitlement they've shown during Epic trial. Apple really believes that their OS and Store are godsend to developers, and this makes developers forever indebted to Apple for the 30% cut of everything happening through it.

I have to use mediocre Xcode, limited OS APIs, fight signing, sandboxing, lack of Vulcan, and capricious review. I need to keep rewriting churning APIs with "No Overview Available" instead of documentation. I'd rather not use any of this, but Apple keeps users hostage, because browser engines that would embarrass Safari are banned.

Re: Apple execs describe a “unique arrangement” with Netflix (2018)

#150

Post by tehjoker »

kortilla wrote: post #100
abvdasker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a solved problem. Just do what most American cities do with other natural monopolies like utilities: use careful price controls to cap margins and slow rate increases. You don't need to invent some esoteric market-based solution, especially for a service where marginal costs are near zero and supply is almost infinite.

Absolutely not a solved problem. The utilities have no reason to innovate at that point. In my local municipality I have no way to choose renewable energy apart from building my own power plant on my roof. That’s a complete failure of these government granted monopolies.

It's not something that should be a choice. The government should move as much power to renewable as fast as possible and you should just keep getting power. This idea of "choice" for a commodity based on how it was produced not based on any features is crazy and will never work.
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