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Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

johncoogan.com

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Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#141

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

chiph wrote: post #135
captainmuon wrote: post #63

Can anybody tell how such a plane will sound like over land? Growing up in Europe in the 90s, we regularly saw fighter jets doing maneuver and we called the noise they make a sonic boom: a loud, scratching and thundering noise that seems to come from the wrong direction. But I've also heard that planes almost never flew supersonic over civilian areas and an actual sonic boom sounds like a double clap, and is much mor…

Former USAFE member here. You weren't hearing a sonic boom, just the normal engine noise. If I recall correctly, we would do supersonic training off the coast of Spain. Flying supersonic over populated areas would do things like break windows in people's houses and that's not good. The engine noise you heard was loud because military aircraft are normally exempt from sound level limits (when non-supersonic). And the…

Lol, dude, you would have loved flying in Germany in the 80ies. Nosuch nonsense having to care about broken windows.

Officially, maybe. In practice it was very, very different, and loud.

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#142

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

Be clever and smart. Ride your own shock wave forever and hard.

Use compression lift [1], as the Valkyrie [2] did.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_lift

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_XB-70_Valkyrie

Less boom, more lift, can it be that hard?

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#143

Post by panick21 »

evgen wrote: post #134
panick21 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its still an insane dumb regulatory response to ban all super-sonic travel. Its totally unnecessary and restrictive and will block and hinder many of the technologies that could overcome the initial problem.

Don't care. No one is banning supersonic travel, just supersonic travel over land. If it can't be made to work economically over the long oceanic routes then it is a dumb idea that deserves to die. Again. If it works over water then it can stay there.

if it can't be made to work economically then there is no need for regulation to explicitly ban it. That is like saying 'nuclear fusion can't be made to work economically, so lets introduce regulation to ban it.'

That is just an incredibly mindbogglingly stupid way to handle regulation in this sector.

If anything regulate the SOUND being produced and how loud or often they can be.

In fact, with the coming revolution in electric aviation, we could actually have super sonic over land travel. A possible solution beyond the airframe for the BOOM problem is to fly higher and in lower density air.

But if you start flat out with regulation that makes any such innovation incredibly difficult and risky its unlikely people are gone invest in such innovation.

And with electric flight its exactly the case that it would be overland, as it would start out with shorter routes and not cross Atlantic flights. Thus this regulation literally kill possible investment in such architecture.

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#144

Post by panick21 »

eaenki wrote: post #132
panick21 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their sub-scale prototype was claimed to be ready in 2019 at one point. And as far as I know its still has not flown. So as for the 'can they make it', I am very skeptical. Even assuming they can make it, can they make enough of them fast enough to actually be a return on investment. Even assuming that, is the market large in-enough that a real manufacturing line is going to be possible? Could the company exist maybe…

Rocket power transport it’s nonsense once you consider how much time the on boarding and outboarding is

Well you have to get into planes or rockets, so that time is likely not that different. If its not worth it for rockets, its not worth it for supersonic flights either.

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#145

Post by scoopertrooper »

willyt wrote: post #104
scoopertrooper wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That calculation rests on the assumption that Concord was a necessary step toward Airbus. Given that the Airbus A300 actually entered service prior to the Concord, it seems to me that Concord was not a necessary precondition. Granted, the Concord was the first aircraft to have fly-by-wire. However, it used an entirely different technology (analogue fly-by-wire) to the Airbus A320 (digital) and preceded it by a decade…

Well it set a precedent for Cross-European collaboration and presumably a whole bunch of engineers from Britain and France all started talking to each other sharing ideas, learning each other’s language and cultural differences in the early 1960’s. The development of the A300 was started about 8 years after France and Britain merged their SST projects, the bulk of the development of the A300 was done in the 70’s. The…

> Well it set a precedent for Cross-European collaboration and presumably a whole bunch of engineers from Britain and France all started talking to each other sharing ideas, learning each other’s language and cultural differences in the early 1960’s.

Maybe. Hard to say. But, if the 'Concord' was a project to build a wide body subsonic passenger jet, then the outcome would have been much the same, with the exception of a genuinely useful aircraft being produced.

> The engineers that worked on the Concorde programme would have started to become available to begin work on the A320 in the late 70’s/early 80’s.

Again, perhaps. Maybe, they were employed more on military jets? Who knows? European aeronautical engineers knew how to build passenger jets before Concord and not every European aeronautical engineer worked on Concord.

> Also there is at least one digital computer in Concorde

Probably, they had pocket calculators before that bird took off for its first flight. I don't really see how that matters.

Generally, the problem with these X is justified because it preceded Y arguments is that they overlook the fact we could have directly applied our efforts toward reaching Y.

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#147

Post by chiph »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #141
chiph wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former USAFE member here. You weren't hearing a sonic boom, just the normal engine noise. If I recall correctly, we would do supersonic training off the coast of Spain. Flying supersonic over populated areas would do things like break windows in people's houses and that's not good. The engine noise you heard was loud because military aircraft are normally exempt from sound level limits (when non-supersonic). And the…

Lol, dude, you would have loved flying in Germany in the 80ies. Nosuch nonsense having to care about broken windows. Officially, maybe. In practice it was very, very different, and loud .

I was there in the mid-80's. We had a 100m tall microwave tower on base. The Luftwaffe pilots from Flugplatz Pferdsfeld would fly loops around it in their F-4 Phantoms during joint exercises. The US pilots had been told they would receive Article-15's if they tried that stunt.

An interesting story about property damage however, was during the REFORGER exercises. What I heard was that every convoy would have a Captain or Major in a Jeep at the end of it, and he would have a checkbook to pay for any damages to homes, vehicles, gardens, etc. caused by the tanks.

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#149

Post by ethbr0 »

johncoogan wrote: post #146
torginus wrote: post #57

This is an entirely substance-free article. I'd recommend you save your time and not read it.

Author here, what do you think would give this kind of content more substance? Still very new to this and genuinely looking for feedback!

HN probably isn't the ideal audience for your article.

Your content would be novel to someone who wasn't following Boom, but... that person isn't here. Because [0]. Parent could have put that more gently.

That said, if you did want to target HN readership (which is non-representative of general readership!), you could drill down into each of your points. How is Boom doing these things?

For example, their struggles to find a moderate-bypass engine (even uprated and recertified) without having to fund novel engine development is critical to the entire endeavor, and is still an open question [1].

In short, recommendation would be to (1) know your audience, (2) research prior art (previous HN Boom stories), and (3) bring something novel in your article, either through new reporting or synthesis.

[0] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=boom

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Overture#Engines

Re: Can Boom Supersonic Succeed Where the Concorde Failed?

#150

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

chiph wrote: post #147
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, dude, you would have loved flying in Germany in the 80ies. Nosuch nonsense having to care about broken windows. Officially, maybe. In practice it was very, very different, and loud .

I was there in the mid-80's. We had a 100m tall microwave tower on base. The Luftwaffe pilots from Flugplatz Pferdsfeld would fly loops around it in their F-4 Phantoms during joint exercises. The US pilots had been told they would receive Article-15's if they tried that stunt. An interesting story about property damage however, was during the REFORGER exercises. What I heard was that every convoy would have a Captain…

Strange. I lived and was born there. Though I can tell you my experience was very different from yours. Maybe it differed by region? Mine was mainly Bonn (Bad Godesberg) and surroundings, and later Burscheid, which seemed to be some sort of path where they did their low flying(though slower there, not near sonic). Nonetheless I feel there were times where almost no day went by without several sonic booms. Especially in Bonn from say 1980 to 1986. And those were F-15, F-16, F-18, rarely F-14, besides the stuff the German Airforce flew. Maybe Belgium, Netherlands? Oh, some Mirages and Gripen also! (But even more rare than the F-14) I could tell them apart because someone gifted me a set of cards for aircraft recognition ;->
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