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What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

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Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#141

Post by bspammer »

37ef_ced3 wrote: post #129
bspammer wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct response to becoming obsolete is to learn something new, not to fight the thing making you obsolete. Doing the latter is about as productive as yelling at the tide to not come in.

Yes, I guess it's like complaining about nuclear weapons. Best to embrace them. If we can do it, we should do it. All technology is progress. All technology improves the human existence.

It's irrelevant whether the technology is good or bad. There's nothing you can do to stop it happening, so do you want to complain, or do you want to embrace the change and stay ahead of the curve?

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#142

Post by neutronicus »

zerr wrote: post #23
neutronicus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is basically C++++ so I doubt it's what that commenter had in mind

More like (C)++++ rather than (C++)++.

Eh

To me that's C++ snobbery talking. Long compile times, confusing type system, RAII as guiding design light

Just admit that it's basically C++

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#143

Post by byteface »

rak1507 wrote: post #140
byteface wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't think it is. It says a great deal about you too :)

I don't just think it isn't, I know it isn't. I've tried it, and watched friends try it too. Copilot is decent at speeding up some commonly occurring boilerplate in a common language, and pretty bad at anything else. FWIW, there was also this https://challenge.openai.com/codex/leaderboard , and Copilot's 'time' was laughably bad compared to any decent human. Does this mean that it couldn't potentially be a useful too…

Not sure what you would take as evidence. You seem convinced. I have github repos. If you like, take any app idea. In any language you want. We can both spend 2 weeks building it. Screen record yourself making it and ill use copilot, you don't. We can see who's is better?

edit.

- ok so you conceded in your sentence that it's faster and you would use it for that reason.

so your only disagreement is it can't help you solve harder problems?.

- the average dev is hitting stackoverflow 10x a day for that very reason. And that data is embedded in copilot. I've literally typed the name of functions I was going to have to spend 20 minutes googling to figure out how to achieve. typed the pseudo code comments and boom. copilot has done it before I even had to think. If not I just have to change how i prompt it by feeding it a few variable names or changing my comments. As I said. You can get good at using it. If copilot is crap it's because of the person using it. I.e. if you are looking for a bike and you google 'chicken sandwich' well. You aint gonna get a bike.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#144

Post by rak1507 »

byteface wrote: post #143
rak1507 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't just think it isn't, I know it isn't. I've tried it, and watched friends try it too. Copilot is decent at speeding up some commonly occurring boilerplate in a common language, and pretty bad at anything else. FWIW, there was also this https://challenge.openai.com/codex/leaderboard , and Copilot's 'time' was laughably bad compared to any decent human. Does this mean that it couldn't potentially be a useful too…

Not sure what you would take as evidence. You seem convinced. I have github repos. If you like, take any app idea. In any language you want. We can both spend 2 weeks building it. Screen record yourself making it and ill use copilot, you don't. We can see who's is better? edit. - ok so you conceded in your sentence that it's faster and you would use it for that reason. so your only disagreement is it can't help you s…

That sounds like an interesting idea, but to me a more convincing thing would be seeing the same person do something with + without copilot and see if it makes a big difference when used correctly.

To me 'smarter and faster' means being able to solve harder problems + accurately reason about things, etc. (And not introduce security issues, which is a whole other thing...)

If it is just a replacement for stackoverflow, it's probably useful and it could save time, but I'm not sure it's 'smarter and faster' any more than any other feature in an IDE (you could also create a hotkey or something to search SO which would probably be just as fast too).

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#145

Post by byteface »

rak1507 wrote: post #144
byteface wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you would take as evidence. You seem convinced. I have github repos. If you like, take any app idea. In any language you want. We can both spend 2 weeks building it. Screen record yourself making it and ill use copilot, you don't. We can see who's is better? edit. - ok so you conceded in your sentence that it's faster and you would use it for that reason. so your only disagreement is it can't help you s…

That sounds like an interesting idea, but to me a more convincing thing would be seeing the same person do something with + without copilot and see if it makes a big difference when used correctly. To me 'smarter and faster' means being able to solve harder problems + accurately reason about things, etc. (And not introduce security issues, which is a whole other thing...) If it is just a replacement for stackoverflow…

You really notice when you don't have it anymore after using it for several weeks. Writing each line again, each painful character one at a time. I keep accidently opening sublime and going to type then realising it doesn't have copilot. And think ugh.

It's nice to reason about your actual problem and not the features of code.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#147

Post by 37ef_ced3 »

bspammer wrote: post #141
37ef_ced3 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I guess it's like complaining about nuclear weapons. Best to embrace them. If we can do it, we should do it. All technology is progress. All technology improves the human existence.

It's irrelevant whether the technology is good or bad. There's nothing you can do to stop it happening, so do you want to complain, or do you want to embrace the change and stay ahead of the curve?

I work on deep learning professionally, at the most important company in the space. I even have open source deep learning projects, most recently:

https://NN-512.com

I profit from your obsolescence. I'm making you obsolete. I know what I'm doing. I'm making you worthless. The fact that you can fail to do even a basic check into me speaks volumes.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#148

Post by bspammer »

37ef_ced3 wrote: post #147
bspammer wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's irrelevant whether the technology is good or bad. There's nothing you can do to stop it happening, so do you want to complain, or do you want to embrace the change and stay ahead of the curve?

I work on deep learning professionally, at the most important company in the space. I even have open source deep learning projects, most recently: https://NN-512.com I profit from your obsolescence. I'm making you obsolete. I know what I'm doing. I'm making you worthless. The fact that you can fail to do even a basic check into me speaks volumes.

Very impressive, but if I spent my days googling the random hex usernames of every person I replied to on hacker news I'd be obsolete even faster :)

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#149

Post by 37ef_ced3 »

bspammer wrote: post #148
37ef_ced3 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on deep learning professionally, at the most important company in the space. I even have open source deep learning projects, most recently: https://NN-512.com I profit from your obsolescence. I'm making you obsolete. I know what I'm doing. I'm making you worthless. The fact that you can fail to do even a basic check into me speaks volumes.

Very impressive, but if I spent my days googling the random hex usernames of every person I replied to on hacker news I'd be obsolete even faster :)

I am the one who knocks.

Re: What will programming look like in 2020? (2012)

#150

Post by junon »

lelanthran wrote: post #62
junon wrote: post #15

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4655#comment-73772 > ... the beginnings of intelligent ... assistants in our IDEs ... specialize (sic) in ... C/C++, Java, Mobile. They will have intimate knowledge of common APIs ... trained on tens of thousands of code projects pulled from the open repositories across the web (google code, github, bitbucket,...). In addition to having 'read' more orders of magnitude more code the…

Cherry picking only the accurate prediction makes it seem like the predictor is really good! Look at the rest of that quote: > The human, computer pair, will also interactively suggest, confirm and fine tune specifications of mathematical properties and invariants at points in the the program. That hasn't happened and as far as I am aware, is not even close. > This will help the computer assistant to not only better…

Yes, if we're being pedantic then they were far off.

I was just pointing out something fun.

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