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Introducing Age Verification

blog.roblox.com

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Re: Introducing Age Verification

#141

Post by [deleted] »

nomel wrote: post #95
q_andrew wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bandaid measure. Roblox spends most of its time convincing young children that they will be successful while simultaneously cheesing the 'robux' exchange rate so that these children get nothing. Roblox is undoubtedly responding to backlash from revelations that they are exploiting children for economic growth. Here's a great summary: https://youtu.be/_gXlauRB1EQ

> Roblox spends most of its time convincing young children that they will be successful I've never seen this. Could you give an example? Me and my kids are pretty heavy players, with a couple games released, with one giving my kid a nice stream of Robux.

[deleted]

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#142

Post by philistine »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #137
derefr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada we have https://verified.me/government-sign-in-by-verified-me/ , which is ultimately “the government taking on responsibility for providing this sort of service” — but the government then turning around and delegating that responsibility to major banks (the Verified.Me service acting as the SSO intermediary, is a joint venture of seven major Canadian banks, and then supports other non-shareholding financial…

Does this basically force people to have a Canadian bank account to survive?

There are ways around this and I have seldom seen it used outside of government services, so not really.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#143

Post by vintermann »

derefr wrote: post #121
tialaramex wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

In Canada we have https://verified.me/government-sign-in-by-verified-me/ , which is ultimately “the government taking on responsibility for providing this sort of service” — but the government then turning around and delegating that responsibility to major banks (the Verified.Me service acting as the SSO intermediary, is a joint venture of seven major Canadian banks, and then supports other non-shareholding financial…

It's similar in Norway. There's a government service (IDporten) which aggregates a few commercial offerings (most notably BankID, a two factor auth scheme used by the banks). But it's very restricted who gets to use these services.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#144

Post by vintermann »

derefr wrote: post #120
_jal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't do this. If your service demands my ID, I'll close my account. If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor.

With most of these, the service itself doesn’t demand your ID; they demand that you give your ID to some third-party KYC/AML provider, who then just sends a “yes, this account isn’t fraudulent” signal back to the service. It’s like really overwrought SSO.

And if that third party is the same that actually issues your ID (I.e. the government), you give no one anything they didn't have already. It could even be constructed cryptographically so that

1. the government doesn't know for what purpose it verified your identity, only that it did

2. The party receiving the proof of ID (or proof of age, or proof of non-duplicate registration - it could potentially be a lot more limited than full ID) gets it in a zero-knowledge form, so they can't turn around and give it to someone else.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#145

Post by rkagerer »

tialaramex wrote: post #92
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service

After witnessing enough leaks and hacks of government databases, this is one application where I'd favor a cryptographically secure, decentralized solution based on open-source code that's been competently audited to show the system keeps my sensitive info provably private.

Ideally something that's been in the wild under sustained and motivated efforts to hack it for long enough to convince me there's some substance to the claims.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#146

Post by Symbiote »

emilfihlman wrote: post #133
tialaramex wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

>But, the UK government added a site so you can prove you're you, and get codes, which for a limited period show someone that yup, this person is legal to drive and so on. Could you link us the site?

I think it is this: https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work

(Just from a search, I've not needed to find this before.)

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#147

Post by dane-pgp »

Spivak wrote: post #117
dane-pgp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly is the victim of the crime which such a law creates? If the purpose of age verification is ostensibly to protect children, and if children are the ones lying about their age, then are they both the perpetrator and the victim? In any case, dragging a 12 year old through the legal system seems like a greater harm than allowing them to play Roblox (although perhaps not by much).

Say that again but about cigarettes and alcohol.

If a child is using a fake ID to buy cigarettes and alcohol, the harm they suffer is not from owning or presenting the ID, but from consuming the product which the ID gives them access to.

A company could in theory ask for ID before selling any product (ignoring age discrimination laws), and you wouldn't say that a child is harmed if they use their fake ID to buy a bottle of water, for example, so the use of the fake ID doesn't necessarily lead to harm.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#148

Post by derefr »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #137
derefr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada we have https://verified.me/government-sign-in-by-verified-me/ , which is ultimately “the government taking on responsibility for providing this sort of service” — but the government then turning around and delegating that responsibility to major banks (the Verified.Me service acting as the SSO intermediary, is a joint venture of seven major Canadian banks, and then supports other non-shareholding financial…

Does this basically force people to have a Canadian bank account to survive?

Not strictly (as the sibling comment says), but also, in practice it doesn’t matter, as there are effectively no “unbanked” Canadians the way there are “unbanked” Americans.

From https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/... :

> In Canada, you have the right to open a bank account at a bank or a federally regulated credit union as long as you show proper identification.

> You can open an account even if you: don’t have a job; don’t have money to put in the account right away; or have been bankrupt.

But that requirement to show identification is important. What it means in practice is that everyone who resides in Canada except illegal immigrants can open a Canadian bank account.

And the fact that so many crucial government services assume that you have a Canadian bank account (not just for SSO, but also because they assume things like the ability to do direct deposit for tax refunds, welfare/unemployment, etc.), means that it’s really hard to be an illegal immigrant in Canada. Which is probably one reason among many that people generally aren’t interested in trying. (Other reasons: we don’t have any land borders except with the US, and it’s easier to be an illegal immigrant in the US, so why not just stop there? And: the Canada Border Services Agency is terrifying to interact with, even for Canadian citizens.)

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#149

Post by xboxnolifes »

LegitShady wrote: post #111
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roblox has an age verification system that works. It's just not good for the public. Isn't that what governments are for?

No. If its not good for the public, then either don't use it, or pass legislation to ban it. subsidizing a business because they can't do it is wasting tax money for a video game.

Regulating that vast swarms of businesses need to make their own age verification system seems like a waste of economic value. Especially considering how many normal tasks that near everyone does would also benefit from such a government system: Loans, Rentals, Housing, etc.

You would also only need to provide the evidence once to the governing body that gave it to you in the first place, instead of giving it to dozens of companies.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#150

Post by xboxnolifes »

rkagerer wrote: post #145
tialaramex wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service After witnessing enough leaks and hacks of government databases, this is one application where I'd favor a cryptographically secure, decentralized solution based on open-source code that's been competently audited to show the system keeps my sensitive info provably private. Ideally something that's been in the wild under su…

Each government already has a complete list of all their citizens (probably multiple duplicated across various departments). Having the government have a service that provides temporary keys associated with an identity isn't much of an add toward security risk.
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