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Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

coloradoexcluded.com

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Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#141

Post by rsj_hn »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #75
rsj_hn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last thing anyone wants is efficient markets in labor. It would make unions illegal, for example, as the entire raison d'etre of unions is to use market power to raise prices in a coordinated manner. So let's not start pushing for "market efficiency" arguments because those will really come back to bite the proponents of this bill.

An individual may not want efficient markets for their short term interest. A society most certainly benefits from efficient markets in the long term by properly allocating labor resources. The bottom income/wealth deciles should definitely welcome price transparency, unless they are "temporarily" embarrassed members of the upper income/wealth deciles.

It's not at all clear that society benefits from efficient markets in labor, or that efficient markets theory is something that can even be applied to labor markets in a consistent and logical manner.

Efficient markets assume an infinite amount of indistinguishable goods sold by an infinite amount of producers with only marginal costs. This theory is useful because in many situations (e.g. commodities markets) this is a reasonable approximation. That is very different from how labor markets work, even in theory. Labor is not a commodity, there are heavy fixed costs (the costs of skill acquisition), and search costs dominate labor markets.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#142

Post by dang »

A few large threads and many small ones:

Ask HN: Are the salary ranges on Colorado job postings low? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27786282 - July 2021 (5 comments)

Colorado Requires Disclosure of Compensation and Benefits with All Job Postings - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27732958 - July 2021 (6 comments)

Companies are avoiding hiring in Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27576885 - June 2021 (2 comments)

Many companies want remote workers, except from Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27569407 - June 2021 (99 comments)

Many Companies Want Remote Workers – Except from Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27546384 - June 2021 (3 comments)

Many Companies Want Remote Workers–Except from Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27539698 - June 2021 (4 comments)

Why Corporations Won’t Hire Remote Workers in Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27338931 - May 2021 (63 comments)

Why Corporations Won’t Hire Remote Workers in Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27295019 - May 2021 (4 comments)

Show HN: Colorado Excluded – Find companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27265447 - May 2021 (3 comments)

Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27233073 - May 2021 (394 comments)

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#143

Post by colinmhayes »

soperj wrote: post #57
bmmayer1 wrote: post #20

This is a predictable consequence of a shortsighted legal requirement. How many people will be deprived of work opportunities because of this law? How many jobs will Colorado lose over the next decade or more until the legislature realizes what they've done?

How many people are deprived of work opportunities from minimum wage requirement? Races to the bottom suck.

Very few. Less than 2% of employees are on minimum wage.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#144

Post by gurpreetsatwal »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #83
abatilo wrote: post #48

Oh, neat. Hi everyone. I made this website a few months ago. If there are questions or suggestions, happy to answer them. The website was covered in the wallstreet journal and a few other places: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-companies-want-remote-work... Definitely overkill for the website itself but I also built it as a learning opportunity so it's a react frontend with Tailwindcss, Golang + gRPC gateway, hoste…

I clicked through some Accenture links (#2 on the list) and they clearly comply with the Colorado hiring law. They even have a section dedicated to the Colorado law and the wage range: > As required by the Colorado Equal Pay Transparency Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of minimum compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but…

> I clicked through some Accenture links (#2 on the list) and they clearly comply with the Colorado hiring law. They even have a section dedicated to the Colorado law and the wage range:

> > As required by the Colorado Equal Pay Transparency Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of minimum compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but not limited to skill set, level of experience, and specific office location. For the state of Colorado only, the range of starting pay for this role is {$215,000 - $324,999 } and information on benefits offered is here.

> How are you generating this list? The first link I clicked on showed the exact opposite of excluding Colorado hiring due to the law. Are these listings compiled by searching for generic terms like “Colorado”? Is anyone verifying them?

> How are companies and listings added? > Job listings are currently user submitted with a manual review process to verify that a job listing is excluding Colorado. Anyone can submit listings to /new and our team will frequently review the submitted listings to see if they should be listed on the rest of the website.

https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/about

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#145

Post by theandrewbailey »

1cvmask wrote: post #34

In a hot job market this will not affect overall unemployment in Colorado. In a severe downturn, Coloradans will probably be at a major disadvantage. We need a recession to figure out the real consequences. Who knows when that will be.

Is the recession we're in now not severe enough?

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#146

Post by InitialLastName »

ilikecakeandpie wrote: post #49
silexia wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be even better is making all tax records public. Then everyone knows what everyone else makes. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

I have to hard disagree here. There are a lot of bad actors and abusive/manipulative people who would use this information to unfairly pressure someone if they knew how exactly much they made.

Does anyone who lives in a country where tax records are already public have any insight on whether this happens with any non-pro-corporate-fearmongering frequency in those places?

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#147

Post by [deleted] »

imglorp wrote: post #118
Jtsummers wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're avoiding the other elements of the law. It institutes a few other things besides just salary transparency. Companies also have to maintain a record of salaries/wages in order to prove they didn't discriminate based on sex and they have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from).

> have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from). Why? Isn't hiring from within a win for employer and employee? I don't speak HR. Training up on culture and product is a huge deal sometimes.

[deleted]

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#148

Post by jimbob45 »

macksd wrote: post #124
smoldesu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. If you wanna pay your neighbor's kid $15 for 3 hours of lawn mowing, you still can. Unmediated transactions of a certain scale don't require any government oversight, it's only when you start breaking out taxable income that it become a problem.

>> Unmediated transactions of a certain scale don't require any government oversight What is this scale? As far as I know you only get away with this because no one knows or cares to enforce the law in that case. But police have been known to shut down kids lemonade stands for not having all the right permits, so I don't believe this is actually true in the law. I would be happy if this was the case: I used to hire p…

The scale is usually < 50 employees has lesser rules applied to them.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#149

Post by Jtsummers »

imglorp wrote: post #118
Jtsummers wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're avoiding the other elements of the law. It institutes a few other things besides just salary transparency. Companies also have to maintain a record of salaries/wages in order to prove they didn't discriminate based on sex and they have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from).

> have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from). Why? Isn't hiring from within a win for employer and employee? I don't speak HR. Training up on culture and product is a huge deal sometimes.

It should be, but companies, like people, aren't as rational as we'd like to believe them to be. For whatever reason there is a tendency to keep people who aren't on leadership tracks (which often means getting picked by a leader above you) where they are and with minimal pay raises. But then they hire new people at higher rates (because you have to, to get them in the door). This law makes that much harder to accomplish without creating conflict. You announce a new job paying 20% more than your current employees get in that position, they'll know they're getting screwed.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#150

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

wyager wrote: post #97
MattGaiser wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered whether I was in the minority in caring a lot about these, as companies tend to talk about the "challenges" and "mission", and while I enjoy those, I also chose this field in part because I want a comfortable life. I enjoy CS, don't get me wrong, but I also enjoy history.

I think working for an employer because you identify with their “mission” is deeply unhealthy for both individual employees and for society at large. In almost all cases, employment should be a purely financial transaction, and if you’re looking for something “deeper” you should probably work for yourself or start a new company.

I've worked jobs with a healthy social culture (most people are nice & respectful) and unhealthy ones (most people are cold, calculating, and don't give a crap about you), as well as worked on things I would deem "interesting" (brain stimulating, not "fun") and "boring" (not solving problems, just doing legwork, without the creating novel solutions part, more or less). When I was younger, I worked at a carwash where the work was repetitive and mind-numbing and where the people were unkind to each other. I lasted several months until I found a better place to work for, but what I learned from that and later experiences is that I really don't want to work at a job that has a "I'm just here for the money, so why bother making friends?" type of attitude for very long.
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