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The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

nautil.us

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Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#141

Post by falcrist »

stackbutterflow wrote: post #36
misthop wrote: post #12

Wikipedia has a page on the Timeline of the far future[1]. It lists a ton of physical and cosmological things that are predicted to happen based on our current understanding of physics. A really fun read that always takes me down a rabbit's hole of phenomena wikipedia pages. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

There's a video on that. The end of the universe: https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA This is so weird to think that for most of its life the universe will be empty and cold. Like what's even the point of all this, of life, of us, if in the end nothing matters, everything decays into nothingness.

The idea of having some ultimate meaning is (as far as we can tell) an invention of the human mind.

Whether life has meaning, whether it needs to have meaning, or even whether the meaning of life is predicated on influencing the universe is up to you to determine.

If you asked 10 philosophers and religious leaders about the meaning of life, you'd probably get 100 different answers ranging from "seeking knowledge", "enjoying life", "serving [god or supernatural force]", "making others happy", to "there is no meaning".

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#142

Post by goatlover »

rightbyte wrote: post #105
yalogin wrote: post #7

So the universe is just biding it’s time to die? This is it, no more creation, no more new platforms for biological miracles. Interesting, so while humans figure out how to navigate the universe, many planets/stars would simply die and we will not even know.

Conceptually I have a hard time imagining that the universe could not 'restart' ... otherwise how could it 'start' at all.

The same way the universe could be finite and there be no boundary or outside.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#143

Post by rootbear »

rbanffy wrote: post #97
foxyv wrote: post #45

This makes me wonder, how many sparks of life and ancient civilizations have been wiped from the universe by the birth and death of stars. How many supernovae have violently ripped them from existence. How many rogue stars have cooked them to molten slag. What a small and fragile thing humanity is in the face of these forces.

People pointed to Asimov's Last Question, I'll point you to Clarke's The Star: https://sites.uni.edu/morgans/astro/course/TheStar.pdf

I reread this most years over the Holidays.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#144

Post by ud_0 »

goatlover wrote: post #137
ud_0 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like what's even the point of all this, of life, of us, if in the end nothing matters, everything decays into nothingness. I don't understand this reasoning. If the universe had a different end state, or if it collapsed in on itself only to erupt again, would that make any difference to the meaning of your life or that of our civilization? Probably not, because things still end. It seems to me that you'd arrive at…

> They have meaning because we give them meaning. Isn't that liberating? Liberating from what? There being some objective or higher meaning to it all? Would that be oppressive? While I agree that we give things meaning, it's all rather arbitrary and empty to think about it that way.

> Would that be oppressive?

To be ascribed one authoritative meaning and purpose from outside is probably the definition of totalitarian oppression, yes. You may argue that it's oppression in a delightful state of bliss, or that you much prefer a life on rails. That's hard to argue against, because it's a matter of personal preference. But if you would prefer there to be an external authority who imbues meaning, what in turn then gives meaning to that authority?

> While I agree that we give things meaning, it's all rather arbitrary and empty to think about it that way.

Again, only if you feel it's empty. Then: yes, it is. To me it doesn't feel that way, so to me it isn't. It feels vast and full of possibilities. And also sad that we're such primitive creatures with such short and hard lives. I'd rather I was born in a few hundred years to better take advantage of the opportunities of existence.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#145

Post by sxv »

allendoerfer wrote: post #104
ansible wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about this stuff is what prompted my thinking about things like suicide. The Universe is so vast. So much space, most of it with only the barest wisp of gas. Most of the solar systems we see in the night sky may not have life (we don't know yet). And yet here we are, a rare event in a vast Universe. In the end it doesn't matter what you do. What you accomplish or did not accomplish. What awards were won or l…

It helps to think of time as a dimension. Sure, you, anyone or anything will not last measured on this dimension. But it still has a span. You would not call objects meaningless or less beautiful just because they physically end at some point in space. Why is time so different? It is just the fourth dimension of their shape, giving them a more unique character.

This helps put into words my feelings toward immortality. A life without end would be as monstrous as a sculpture whose height or width never ends!

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#146

Post by surfsvammel »

allendoerfer wrote: post #104
ansible wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about this stuff is what prompted my thinking about things like suicide. The Universe is so vast. So much space, most of it with only the barest wisp of gas. Most of the solar systems we see in the night sky may not have life (we don't know yet). And yet here we are, a rare event in a vast Universe. In the end it doesn't matter what you do. What you accomplish or did not accomplish. What awards were won or l…

It helps to think of time as a dimension. Sure, you, anyone or anything will not last measured on this dimension. But it still has a span. You would not call objects meaningless or less beautiful just because they physically end at some point in space. Why is time so different? It is just the fourth dimension of their shape, giving them a more unique character.

This is also how I think about things. I exist here and now. My children exist here and now. We are happy. It ends. Sure. Just like you say, an object also ends (at its borders). But that doesn’t change the fact that this moment will forever be a part of the universe.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#147

Post by divbzero »

SamBam wrote: post #24

I'd be interested to know how people (humanity) would feel if it were known that the universe would just come to a hard-stop in a million years. In practice, it should make no difference. That's already much, much further than any of us can comprehend. It's a hundred times the length of recorded human history. What would it really matter? On the other hand, it would seem so short, I think a sense of nihilism would al…

I wonder if a hard-stop could actually focus our attention on a concrete goalpost: instead of having an indefinite future, we would have a fixed timespan before us that’s much longer than our current planning horizon.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#148

Post by falcrist »

vidarh wrote: post #114
eloff wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on shorter timescales we all die and cease to matter. That doesn't mean life is without meaning. Life is amazing, and terribly short. I wish I could live 1000 more lives, and live them all differently. There's so much I will never do.

> Even on shorter timescales we all die and cease to matter. If you really want to drive this home, genealogy very quickly shows you how entire families ends up reduced to at most a few lines in archives. The proportion of people who ends up leaving anything of note beyond birth, marriage and death record is minuscule. Even an obituary in a paper is rare at scale. Even most of those who left something behind are all…

I agree with you.

“I mean, they say you die twice. One time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on, when somebody says your name for the last time.” — Banksy

That idea has been around a lot longer than Banksy, but I disagree. Just because you're not directly recorded in great detail, doesn't mean you didn't have some influence on the world around you. We all contribute in some small way, and our influence spreads out like ripples in a pond.

I like how John Donne said it:

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#149

Post by eloff »

vidarh wrote: post #114
eloff wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even on shorter timescales we all die and cease to matter. That doesn't mean life is without meaning. Life is amazing, and terribly short. I wish I could live 1000 more lives, and live them all differently. There's so much I will never do.

> Even on shorter timescales we all die and cease to matter. If you really want to drive this home, genealogy very quickly shows you how entire families ends up reduced to at most a few lines in archives. The proportion of people who ends up leaving anything of note beyond birth, marriage and death record is minuscule. Even an obituary in a paper is rare at scale. Even most of those who left something behind are all…

Yes, focusing on your legacy and being remembered is pointless. It's also not going to bring you any joy specifically because you won't be around to appreciate it.

I think live a good life, treat others well, try to leave things a little better off than you found them, and enjoy the short time you have. We waste time on so many things that don't matter and don't bring us joy - as if we had infinite time, but we don't.

Re: The universe has already made almost all the stars it will ever make

#150

Post by NateEag »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #113
NateEag wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this framework, Stalin and Kim Jong-Il created their own meaning and no one has a basis for saying what they chose is worse than anyone else's choice. To many of us, that is horribly demoralizing.

You allocating a particular meaning to your life's actions does not mean that other's allocate that same meaning; you're making an unjustified logical leap.

I'm not trying to say others have to accept anyone's chosen meaning.

I'm saying you could not legitimately argue to them that their choices are wrong, philosophically speaking.

You can say "tons of us hate this", but that doesn't get you much of a leg to stand on, really.

They still get to choose what they want their meaning to be, and if it's in violent conflict with yours, there's nothing further to be done but avoid each other and fight when the situation and your respective values make it unavoidable.

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