Mental health impacts of a big tech job • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#141

Post by georgeburdell » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

kyralis wrote: post #104

georgeburdell wrote: post #43

This seems like mostly an Apple problem. I have not heard similar issues with Google and Facebook (I don't know anyone in the other "A" or the "N")

No, this is a "specific team within FAANG" problem. It absolutely happens at some teams in all of them; it also absolutely does not happen in others. That's the problem with having very large companies; the experience is not homogenous.

Do you work at Apple? That company has ruined more than one of my close friends/family members.

If you don't, just read Steve Job's biography. Most of the work situations Isaacson described in Apple's earlier days are horrifying, albeit presented in a heroic, nostalgic light.

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#142

Post by postfacto » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

jjav wrote: post #137

To me the industry has become so extremely toxic to mental health since agile became a thing. Must "sprint" 100% of the time, keep that velocity up at the maximum sustainable in short periods but forever. A marathon runner can't have the pace of a 100m sprinter but software engineers are expected to maintain sprint pace for perpetuity. And give detailed status reports Every.Single.Day. So there's no possibility of a…

Apparently you’re in good company

https://github.com/rayfrankenstein/AITOW/blob/master/README....

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#143

Post by throw0821374 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:16 AM UTC

Things that my peers/managers have told me across 9 years working at Bay area public companies in groups that make 100's of millions in revenue

* Things could be worse * Everywhere it's the same * Someone's good time management is someone else's bad time management * The worst behaved wins - be the rhinoceros you wish to see in the world * It doesn't matter what you do, it matter what your bosses boss thinks you do * It is very likely that hiring and headcount is the only thing your boss cares about * We should stop giving RSU grants for people below * Everyone can write code, I could easily write a million lines of code if I wanted to * It doesn't matter if you do not get a promotion, you aren't going to take this money with you when you reach heaven * If you embarrass me in a meeting, remember that you aren't going to be present when your promotion packet comes up for review * We follow the best development practices - but we also have 3 dozen AWS accounts and manually generated security credentials we message each other in slack * etc etc etc

The least troublesome part was delivering - the hardest was accepting that US work culture confuses leverage for intelligence

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#144

Post by fumblebee » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:18 AM UTC

matwood wrote: post #71

dcolkitt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Notice you’ve been missing a lot of work recently, Peter?” “Well, I wouldn’t say I’ve been missing it, Bob.”

“It’s not that I’m lazy, I just don’t care.”

“Sounds like someone’s got a case of the Mondays.”

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#145

Post by tasuki » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:54 AM UTC

carnitas wrote: post #113

yolovoe wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Amazon and the work-life-balance is pretty chill. I do my 35 hours a week (7 hours a day--8 including lunch) and completely disconnect outside of that. Manager has been chill so far, expectations couldn't be clearer and are pretty reasonable. A lot of my friends work at FAANG and finance in SWE roles too and their wlb is pretty good as well, with most working under 40 hours a week--some well under. And we'r…

Do you get paid full time salary or hourly only for the 35 hours a week?

This is location-dependent: in some countries (France? UK?), 35 hours a week is full time.

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#146

Post by exBarrelSpoiler » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:02 AM UTC

georgeburdell wrote: post #141

kyralis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a "specific team within FAANG" problem. It absolutely happens at some teams in all of them; it also absolutely does not happen in others. That's the problem with having very large companies; the experience is not homogenous.

Do you work at Apple? That company has ruined more than one of my close friends/family members. If you don't, just read Steve Job's biography. Most of the work situations Isaacson described in Apple's earlier days are horrifying, albeit presented in a heroic, nostalgic light.

What happened to the people you know?

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#147

Post by murgindrag » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #25

murgindrag wrote: post #15

Quotes like this bug me: > If you find yourself in this type of situation, please do what’s best for you and get help if you are feeling stuck or overwhelmed. Get help the !@#$% where? There isn't a magic American "help" fairy who bails people out of trouble. These issues are complex, and therapists/counselors/psychologists suck up time and don't really address root causes.

A therapists job is literally to take time to address the root causes of complex issues. Maybe you’ve had bad experience with some therapists/counselors, but I wouldn’t extrapolate that to the whole field of psychology.

If the root causes is:

- Financial constraints

- A harasser

- A medical problem

- Etc.

a therapist/counselor can't help you very much. Whenever I've had issues I needed help with, there were real issues behind it. A therapist/counselor won't be able to do much, if anything.

If you're making a $350k salary in a hell-job while having $100k in financial obligations, the solution is simple enough.

If you're making a $350k salary in a hell-job to pay for your kid's medical problem and meet mortgage, talking to a therapist or "just quitting" won't do much.

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#148

Post by incognito_limey » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

jefftk wrote: post #42

Big Tech is hundreds of thousands of employees across thousands of teams with a wide variety of work environments. The author's experience sounds really rough, but it also doesn't make sense to generalize from there to this whole piece of the industry. To give another data point, I've worked at a different Big Tech company since 2012, on two different teams, and haven't experienced anything like this. There's no pres…

I currently work in a unicorn which recently IPOed and can confirm that I have the same experience as the author of this article.

I also had a very similiar experience at my previous employer which was also a valley based company which IPOed.

I have multiple colleagues who are in the same boat, both current and former, and while I realize this data is anecdotal, from my perspective, work culture in the valley is just plain broken.

People are not robots, they need time to rest and adjust.

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#149

Post by luckylion » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

mbrodersen wrote: post #83

I always feel pity when I read accounts of people destroying their mental health and lives to the “glory” of a company. If you don’t look out for, and protect yourself, then there are plenty of people/corporations out there eager and willing to destroy you and suck every last bit of life out of you, leaving you broken and forgotten.

They don't really do it "for the company" though, they get a large paycheck to do it.

The other types exist, but they're typically in non-profits (like, the real kind, not the one where a small team is lining their pockets) and overwork themselves because they believe in the mission.

But if you make 4-10 times the national average, and you start out in your first year making more than most people will at the peak of their career, that's the biggest incentive. You absolutely can semi-retire after five years of doing that and dramatically scale down the amount of work you do because you'll have more savings than most people will have at the end of their career.

Re: Mental health impacts of a big tech job

#150

Post by novok » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

ctvo wrote: post #79

thethethethe wrote: post #16

Not really my experience at Google tbh. I've been at Google for a little under 4 years and been promoted twice but only work about 4 hours a day. Sometimes I don't do shit for weeks at a time and things seem to pan out ok. I'm not trying to humble brag that I'm 10x or anything--im not, I'm a B grade engineer at best. Sure it can be stressful sometimes, but I'd say that 80% of the time it's really chill.

You're not bragging, but perhaps you're a match for the culture? Your communication skills are better than your colleagues? You collaborate better across teams, and get more done? You're better at planning, and delegating? I'm trying to say that you being promoted twice and not being an excellent engineer doesn't mean it's easy. You may have other traits that allow you to excel in that environment. The level distribu…

It depends what level he started at. L5 to l6 or l7 is way more impressive than l3 to l5