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Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

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141–150 of 199 posts

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#141
post #87

One thing nobody brings to the front about salaries difference: Eastern Europe is, well, in Europe, and there are a lot of engineers willing to immigrate there. Good English is not as much of a critical requirement in EU, and, in general, more big companies there are ok hiring foreign workers using their own language at the workplace. Once a person is in EU, he becomes mobile withing a few years. EU tech sector has a…

More homogenous and liquid? Than the US? EU speaks 30 languages. That's a big barrier in terms of communication across the EU. And it's definitely not as liquid a labor market as the US where employees and employers can both decide to part ways at any time while the EU has much more stringent requirements as I understand it.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#142

It’s funny to see this site gather so many upvotes while the server is down. I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. If the shift toward remote work really comes to fruition, I fully expect EU software salaries to rise. I’ve hired a lot of excellent remote developers in European countries. The trick is to pay them American-level wages, which are ofte…

Just adding a bit of perspective.

I work in a unicorn company based in California Bay Area that has dev teams in Europe (Netherlands, Lithuania), India and Brazil (probably other locations as well). IME, this is how it works: we pay higher than local salaries, but they're not as high compared to Bay Area (think location-based salary adjustments). This doesn't really put meaningful upward pressure on average companies to catch up because salaries are often tied to what they're able to pay based on what market they serve (local city vs Europe vs global).

My understanding is that with Bay Area salaries come Bay Area interview bars, and that this bar is very high compared to your local dev shop. Not many can pass these interviews (the failure rate is high even in Bay Area). IIRC from my interviewer stats, the vast majority of candidates didn't even get through the screener round and less than a fifth were offered positions (I have in the range of 100s of interviews under my belt). And we only recruit fluent english-speaking candidates, which shrinks the pool significantly.

Timezone differences are a big deal, even if the employees in far-away timezones form full-on teams. Communication is slow and inconvenient, and sync meetings at 9PM/7AM get old pretty fast. Typically there must be some sort of clear cut advantage to outsourcing that offsets the timezone issue (e.g. my understanding is that our India team is there because network conditions there are impossible to replicate in US and reliability despite wild variations in coverage is important for us).

And if you think being highly qualified is a high importance criteria, consider that in our Covid-related round of layoffs, a number of european teams got sacked. And these folks were no slackers, they're seriously some of the brightest folks I've seen.

In short, high pay European jobs do exist, but they're not common, they are hard to land and they are hard to keep.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#143

If you want to check the software engineering salaries in Europe, you can go to this page: https://techpays.eu/countries/netherlands (Right now, it only has Netherlands) The owner of the project is Gergely Orosz. He likes to talk about salaries on his Twitter account: https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/ One of his tweets that contrasts the salaries in Europe vs US is this one: https://twitter.com/GergelyOrosz/status/14…

Extrapolating contract/freelance hourly pay to full-time... what a joke. These are totally different things.

One has to start from somewhere. In the future, the freelancers should be separated from the full-time employees. And I have to count for other things like bonus, RSU, etc.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#144
post #94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on reported data from levels.fyi, senior SWE salaries in the US go up to $600k whereas in Switzerland they max out at around $400k. If looking at averages, there’s about a $50k difference.

There might be more data for levels.fyi in the US than EU. 600k$ is 480k EUR. I know SEs in Germany doing more than 400k EUR at FAANG.

That is a lot for Germany, can I ask what companies are they work at specifically?

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#145
post #41

Six to eight weeks of vacation, plentiful Holidays, a 35-hour work week. If you look beyond pay as strictly salary and break it down into an hourly rate, I'd argue that European developers make considerably more than their American counterparts.

> Six to eight weeks of vacation, plentiful Holidays, a 35-hour work week.

That's very rare even for jobs with good employers.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do though. They've been doing it for years. I mean UK's no longer in Europe so your point may technically be true but I've had plenty of recruiters contact me from big US tech co's who operate via EU/UK (sometimes shell) entities. EDIT: to further qualify, those orgs base salaries have typically been in the range £120k-£150k if a quick scan through my notes is in any way representative. And obviously the FAANGs…

> have typically been in the range £120k-£150k Is there for an actual roles in the org, or for fixed term contracting gigs?

Can confirm that 120-150 is mid-range base for a senior dev or devops roles in London; not just for fintechs in the City but from post A-round startups in Shoreditch and established companies around town. I have seen some outside IR35 contracting roles start to exceed £1000 per day in the job description (so you know a canny operator can be getting more for that contract.). 8-12 months ago everyone was holding their breath and not hiring while they waited to make sure they survived the Covid lockdowns, but now that things seem to have recovered it has become a sellers market as everyone tries to catch up on a backlog from not hiring over the previous six months.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#147
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we have tons of people who can code at a proficient level in one language. However, don't underestimate the difficulty of software engineering. The people who we need to build our applications are getting really hard to find and especially keep around. Sure I can get someone who will code a basic Spring Boot application in a pinch. But do they have the excellent communication skills, knowledge of build systems,…

It seems like it would be more value efficient to train a person making 40k a year how to do that then pay someone hundreds of grand a year who already knows how to do it.

The problem occurs when, after training that 40k a year developer, they BECOME a 100k a year developer. Unless you can lock them in with an amoral non-compete or some other form of illegal method, they will find out that they are worth that much and leave for someone who will pay them.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#148

It’s funny to see this site gather so many upvotes while the server is down. I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. If the shift toward remote work really comes to fruition, I fully expect EU software salaries to rise. I’ve hired a lot of excellent remote developers in European countries. The trick is to pay them American-level wages, which are ofte…

It's easier to outsource to smaller cities and towns. There's talented workers all over the US. They are in a closer time zone and are native speakers.

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#149
post #63

Salaries don't tell the whole story for an employer because you have to pay many more charges on top of the salary. For example in France, the "charges patronales" are about 60% of the salary before taxes. In the UK, the National Insurance contribution for the employer are lower but it's always higher than in the US if I remember correctly. When I compared hiring in France vs the US, the cost was just slightly lower…

in france it is 42% not 60

Re: Software Engineering Salaries in Europe vs. the United States

#150
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think by now everyone knows very well that software engineering salaries are higher in the United States. It depends. In Switzerland for example salaries as as high as anywhere in the US while the taxes are somewhat lower.

Salaries in Switzerland reach $500k-$1 million/year? Honest question, I know nothing about Switzerland.

See https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Switzerlan... for the very top.

For a more meaningful view of the Swiss market (there's almost only Google on this site for Switzerland), I would have a look at https://swissdevjobs.ch/. There's not a lot above 150k.

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