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Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

bbc.co.uk

141–150 of 531 posts

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#141
post #132
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers You need a license to drive a truck in the UK (the actual subject of the article). It takes a minimum of two months acquire [1]. Even paying a thousand dollars an hour does not magic more qualified candidates into existence at short notice as you appear to propose. The reason for the shortage is the trivially foreseeable effects of idiotic hard-l…

There are people with commercial driving licenses who aren't currently working as truck drivers. They could be recruited if employers raised wages. And a regular truck driver can be trained in a few months. It's not rocket science.

> And a regular truck driver can be trained in a few months. It's not rocket science.

They still need to pass the tests, there is a backlog of people waiting to take them.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#142
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about unemployment. There is no such thing as an unemployment problem in an economy, just workers who want too much and think too highly of their skills.

That's one of the problems with minimum wage laws: they prevent the labor market from clearing. Some people want to work but due to lack of skills their labor is worth less than the minimum and thus no employer will hire them. I understand that people can't live on less than the minimum wage. But the solution to that is a proper social safety net, not imposing arbitrary minimum wage limits.

The problem with this idea is that, beneath some wage floor, workers lose money by working, and would be better off growing food somewhere. The minimum wage is often below this floor, actually - people working minimum wage are often overall paying to work.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you. Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for softwar…

>absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking Nothing says "critical thinking" like believing everything you're told by government and msm.

It’s more about believing unfounded conspiracy theories over mountains of evidence regardless of the source.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#144
Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage?

The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working.

Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, despite the fact that their job would've hired them back by now. Technically this is breaking the rules of unemployment benefits, but there are several easy ways around it.

Not that the increased/extended unemployment benefits have been a bad thing. They were quite necessary, especially early on in the pandemic when there was so much uncertainty. Perhaps they're still necessary. But it seems to me that if you allow people not to work and still have money, many people simply won't work. Mystery solved.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#145
post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on

I disagree... COVID-19 made a lot of people reconsider their priorities. If you only had limited time left with a family member, would you really want to spend your time working a crappy job while struggling to pay rent?

Pretty soon I imagine the government will start doing something like what they did to people who went on strike.. they'll find ways to start punishing people that don't want to work certain jobs anymore and changing careers will rarely be an option.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#146
post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> All of this stuff about workers disappearing and people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on.

Well said. We’ve been bombarded with news articles and thought pieces about how COVID has forever changed the workforce, how people are refusing to work jobs they don’t like, how people are quitting en masse because their employers won’t allow remote work, and how companies are abandoning office spaces in favor of full remote for months now.

Yet every time I dig for the actual numbers it turns out little has changed on the whole. It’s usually journalists taking isolated stories or small changes in certain statistics and re-casting them as society-wide social movements.

Many of these articles are simple clickbait so the reader can think “Duh, pay more!” But it doesn’t make sense that people would choose no job at all over a job that doesn’t pay the wage they want. People are obviously either getting other jobs somewhere, waiting for enhanced unemployment to end, or waiting for other life circumstances to allow them to return to work.

And like you said, many of these situations are the result of parents having to leave the workforce to care for children while their schools and daycares were closed down. People without kids may not realize how disruptive that was to families that had planned routines and jobs around kids attending schools and daycares. I suspect we’ll see sharper increases in employment when school is back in session and enhanced unemployment ends this fall.

There isn’t some large movement of low-wage people simply refusing to work because without other sources of income. The logic in that narrative just doesn’t make any sense.

This problem is temporary while the economy, market, and extended unemployment benefits transition back to normalcy. Journalists are seizing on the narrow window of change to try to insert more dramatic narratives, but those too will fade.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not interested in hiring "perpetual juniors". The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. The skills listed above are for independent action, follow-through, communication, and teamwork, in a tech lead position, which are more important than writing code. If you haven't acquired those skills by now, it's unlikely any amount of mentorship will tea…

> The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. So in your mind, they go straight from junior to senior? I've been developing software for 8 years now, and still call myself intermediate. Senior is for people with incredibly deep knowledge of multiple technologies and how they work together, in my mind.

We don't have an intermediate role, the step after Software Development Expert II is Senior Software Development Expert. This is pretty consistent among peer companies. Your description of senior isn't inaccurate, but, after many years of schooling, personal development experience, and on-the-job training, it's expected that people will gain that level of expertise in at least one domain -- maybe not to the same degree you're expecting, but career progression does not necessarily stop at SSDE.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#148
post #144

Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage? The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working. Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, desp…

If labor is a market, laborers are at a fundamental disadvantage compared to employers when it comes to clearance: the employer has an asymmetric advantage in its ability to wait to hire someone; laborers are a lot less capable.

I don’t know that unemployment is a good solution, but I think it speaks volumes that people might be using it to balance the standard inequity.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#149
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same thing about unemployment. There is no such thing as an unemployment problem in an economy, just workers who want too much and think too highly of their skills.

That's one of the problems with minimum wage laws: they prevent the labor market from clearing. Some people want to work but due to lack of skills their labor is worth less than the minimum and thus no employer will hire them. I understand that people can't live on less than the minimum wage. But the solution to that is a proper social safety net, not imposing arbitrary minimum wage limits.

>But the solution to that is a proper social safety net

Playing devils advocate with your logic, how is this different from preventing the market from “clearing” non-viable businesses? I.e., don’t many safety net programs essentially subsidize business profits by allowing employers to lower wages?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#150

Couldn't it be that people don't want to commute to places anymore for hours every day? So they don't take those jobs where they have to suffer anymore. I read several article about how people realized during covid that they don't want a job they don't like anymore. Specially tech, since its very demanding.

Housing costs spiked pretty much everywhere too. There has been talk of a restaurant bubble for years and not enough was done about affordable housing.

The other thing is during the restaurant bubble, it cost owners little to be open during slow times because it came at the cost of the workers' tips. That was good for convenience-obsessed customers who could easily get a table but it obviously wasn't sustainable.

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