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WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

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Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#141
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not an Eastern European "old country" that got broken and remains broken because communism. IMO I find an interesting divergance in opinions immigrants of ex-soviet bloc countries and China, the former mostly has experience of decline and bad times to draw from, the latter largely supports and are of proud of modern PRC, many have aspirations to return / sea tutural back to live and work. You'll find many Ch…

The point is we have no way to distinguish what is "genuine" in this case. Compounding that problem is the current massive Chinese propaganda offensive, which makes it even harder to believe any positive opinions. Especially when at the same time we can see what is happening in HK, for example.

[deleted]

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to have a solid regulatory framework from the beginning. You can't predict the advance of cutting edge tech. Sure, you can do it earlier, but never from the start. Also, billions of dollars of value didn't disappear overnight. No jobs are or will be lost, and very little utility is lost, except being able to sign up for 1-2 weeks. I'm not absolutely thrilled by the rise of China either, but we gotta…

> No jobs are or will be lost, and very little utility is lost, except being able to sign up for 1-2 weeks. Contrast that with the quote from the article: "Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%…

Tencent is not a cash starved company, and these stocks will recover at least mostly if not fully.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#143
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not an Eastern European "old country" that got broken and remains broken because communism. IMO I find an interesting divergance in opinions immigrants of ex-soviet bloc countries and China, the former mostly has experience of decline and bad times to draw from, the latter largely supports and are of proud of modern PRC, many have aspirations to return / sea tutural back to live and work. You'll find many Ch…

The point is we have no way to distinguish what is "genuine" in this case. Compounding that problem is the current massive Chinese propaganda offensive, which makes it even harder to believe any positive opinions. Especially when at the same time we can see what is happening in HK, for example.

I've wrote elsewhere in this thread that this alleged "Chinese propaganda offensive" especially on western social media is massively overblown. In terms of data, we have decades of western analysis of polling and sentiments in PRC suggesting people are genuinely supportive of central government, reflected in opinions of millions of Chinese diasphora populations who post on western media and/or interact regularly with people in the west. Even substantial percentage of HK itself is supportive of PRC, hence yellow/blue camps. So at minimum the issue is divisive with proponents and opponents, including in HK itself. Except the opponents are trying to create this narrative that proponent opinions can't be genuine because propaganda when that narrative itself is propaganda. All I can say is in my experience, folks in modern PRC voice dissent all the time, this isn't the 70s under Mao where one can be literally dispeared for private conversation. The stazis/red guards days are over. These days negative messages get deleted, positive messages get amplified. It's filtered. In the west the filtering goes the other way. Positive messages of get suppressed, negative ones get attention.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's maybe true when young people in China first learned western democracy ideas. Nowadays I think most of educated Chinese believe democracy is not suitable for China. They didn't get the whole picture of western world, but who does nowadays. They see signs of culture revolution in western social movements and rejected those wholeheartedly.

> Nowadays I think most of educated Chinese believe democracy is not suitable for China. Isn't that exactly 1) what the Communist Party wants them to think, and 2) an idea that they can manipulate the information environment to promote?

[deleted]

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to have a solid regulatory framework from the beginning. You can't predict the advance of cutting edge tech. Sure, you can do it earlier, but never from the start. Also, billions of dollars of value didn't disappear overnight. No jobs are or will be lost, and very little utility is lost, except being able to sign up for 1-2 weeks. I'm not absolutely thrilled by the rise of China either, but we gotta…

> No jobs are or will be lost, and very little utility is lost, except being able to sign up for 1-2 weeks. Contrast that with the quote from the article: "Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%…

> Contrast that with the quote from the article:

Shortly after the quote you pulled:

>> Beijing-based tech consultant Zhou Zhanggui said investors were over-reacting

Zhou Zhanggui is right. Suspension of account creation has basically no impact unless it fails to come back in August as advertised.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#146
post #6

"Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%." Fascinating how the Chinese authorities seem to be regulating the these companies with complete disregard on how the stock market might react.

> with complete disregard on how the stock market might react. I personally regard this as a positive fact, and I'm generally against the policies of the current Chinese authorities. The stock market should not be the be-all and end-all of our modern society.

The stock market should not be the be-all and end-all of our modern society.

And a repressive Communist government should be?

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, luckily babies are are too young to use WeChat and won’t be old enough by early August for this to impact them.

What about the 50k people/day being both 13 years ago? Will they register earlier than they would have done, seeing August as a deadline?

The registration is cut off for now. The point I was making was that this probably doesn’t have much impact on the usage. If you didn’t have it before, you’re probably reliant on someone else with it and that’s just getting extended by a few weeks.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#148

"Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%." Fascinating how the Chinese authorities seem to be regulating the these companies with complete disregard on how the stock market might react.

> with complete disregard on how the stock market might react

Even better, they're intentionally redirecting finances away from companies they don't like.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#149
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naively, it looks like the CCP sees the influence and heft US tech exercises on the US population and world at large. The CCP will forgo economic might (in this sector) for social stability and control every time. They do not want these titans to have more power or influence than they have so they rein them in and let them know who holds the straps.

I don't think this is so naive. Jack Ma, for example, disappeared last year shortly after a speech where he called the finance regulators incompetent and tried to use his fortune to bypass them. What probably scared the Chinese government is that he got close to getting away with it. If I recall correctly, that was the flash point for the Chinese Big Tech crackdown.

umm. It seems like so many people internationally sympathizes with Jack Ma and Ant, and accuses the Chinese government as oppressing. Lets look at the reality.

Ant has China's most dominate online and mobile payment system, alipay. It has consumer lending products like huabei. Ant ties its payment product with lending product, say if you a colleague student buying a $500 shoes on Taobao, you get to the checkout screen, you are like hey $500 is too much for my monthly budget, can't afford this, Alipay then says oh check this out, through Huabei you can get your shoes now only have to pay back a small portion each months. Ant loan money to consumers, then take a bunch of loans lump them together and divide into securities and sell them to other investors, i.e. classic ABS scheme. Ant even says "since we know the consumer spending and payment habits, we have big data algorithm to calculate the rating of the securities and credit score of the consumer". Consumer credit score is supposed to be a check and balance to prevent lending to high risk individuals, security rating allow investors to be confident about the security they are buying. Now Ant financial is the check and balance to itself in both cases.

Through ABS, Ant externalizes all the risk of lending to outside investors. Financial institutions might include Ant's ABS in other securities. A middle class person might buy retirement investments, which have exposure to Ant's ABS. If you own shares of financial institutions that owns Ant's ABS or securities exposed to Ant's ABS, you are also exposed to Ant's ABS. The exposure is everywhere, can't be isolated. From Ant's perspective, they earn a profit from each dollar they lend, so they got all the positives and none the downsides. This could be a reason why Ant lends to consumer who are much riskier than traditional banks in China lends to, and through my experience, riskier than US credit companies lend to. US credit card companies require a stable job, a home or rent, or a dependent with good credit score. Ant lends to colleague students in China that have non of that. Nor do they check the credit rating of the dependent(parent). If the lending goes bust, for example, triggered by an economic down turn, these ABS will drag down everyone exposed to them. Basically how US financial crisis happened, causing suffering 10s of millions of people. The government's action didn't ban Huabei, and Ant. They are just treating Ant as a financial institution, subjecting it the same rules and standards another financial institution (e.g. a bank). The goal is to reduce financial risks. Why is this a bad thing?

The regulators wanted to use existing financial regulation standards, based on Basel Accords, on Ant. But they were on the fence about it because they didn't want to limit a new form of business emerging, or want to limit what a "private" business want to do. But Jack Ma's statement basically called existing financial regulation, and the Basel Accord itself "stupid, out dated, incompetent". In my opinion, that is unacceptable because while Basel accords has its downsides, it's learnings from many financial disasters that caused suffering to millions of people. Its like airplane safety regulations, are they a hassle? yes. But they are there for a reason. And of course a business person will advocate for reducing the rules that limit their ability to earn money, but reducing the rules will increase the risk the entire society will be harmed, especially the under-privileged. A financial crisis triggered by Ant's reckless lending might leave Jack Ma and Ant's executives slightly less wealth, but they sill got all the other cash in the bank. But for a middle class person, the financial crisis will cost them their jobs, their mortgaged home and their retirement savings. And that middle class person didn't do the things that caused the financial disaster in the first place.

Business people will brand their advocacy as something for good, brand things they are against as something old, outdated, cumbersome, use marketing or media power to sway public opinion. Unless you are well versed in financial theory, how can you tell the truth? Most likely that was the final straw. Regulators finally had to gut to required Ant to be regulated as a financial institution similar to a bank. In my opinion, Ant should be regulated like so from the beginning. They lend money, they issue ABS, of course they are a financial institution, subjected to the same rules, same capital requirements like everyone else. Why should they get preferential treatments, not obey by the same rules. The regulators aren't hard liners, they are too weak. They were probably held back by the public opinion about Chinese government is against private industries, so they are afraid to do things that other might say "limit their freedom, hinder private business development, ccp controls private sector etc", including holding business accountable for legitimate reasons. Now these regulators finally have the gut to do the right thing.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea why you’re being downvoted. This is 100% correct, China requires party members to be on the boards of companies and Xi is the head of the party.

Only some companies… logically assess what you are saying: for all business, government has board representation!? How would that scale? Where would the government get that kind is workforce?

How does it scale?

Membership (2021) 95,148,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party

Seems to scale pretty well.

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