93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#141

Post by IgorPartola » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 8:31 PM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #117

IgorPartola wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment that upset you made a joke about their code and the tools from the late 90s. It seems you took it as a personal insult as if they were directly talking to you or about your code. It is a really odd thing over which you to get defensive. I have no horse in this race and I would never judge anyone’s expertise solely on the tools they use (given that it might not even be their choice). But between the two of…

>The tools we use don’t define us. If you feel they do, please reevaluate. Perl (C, k8s, PHP, Python 2.x) are just tools. It’s like defining your identity by the brand of hammer you use. Maybe they shouldn't but professionally they actually do. Try to get a job using a tool you love but doesn't have widespread adoption and it's hard. X years experience using tool Y? Better have got on board earlier. Adopt something e…

I have been on both sides of hiring decisions a lot. Here's what I can tell you: a developer who has a shit load of Perl experience will be more likely to get a job at a Python shop if they show flexibility in their choices. A Python developer who bashes Perl for being a shitty terrible language will not simply because having a bad attitude is a red flag.

If you have only worked with PHP 4 for the past 20 years and have no plans to move off that language then yeah you will have a harder time. But getting defensive about it in an online discussion is a weird thing to do and honestly a red flag more than anything. The tools may define you as a professional (to some), but not as a person. Getting defensive is a personal thing. If you do it as a professional that's pretty bad. If you take professional discussions personally, in my experience you'll be very difficult as a coworker.

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#142

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #138

tetris11 wrote: post #118

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That is what bash/pipeline programming felt like for me the first time I mastered it. I missed the Perl boat by a few years, riding the Python2/Java wave at Uni instead, but I did encounter it a few times in legacy (read: 5-years old) code and could only marvel at its string manipulation capabilities. I like to think of it as the extended bash that I never took the time to learn

I'm not super familiar with Perl, but I gather that it shares much of bash's, er, ergonomic hurdles. Is there something about gaining scripting power that requires such poor usability? I resisted it for a while, but I just write all my workaday scripts in Python now, and I'm honestly a little baffled as to why I stuck with bash for so long.

[deleted]

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#143

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #135

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #65

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Exactly. I feel your pain. I write software for Apple systems. It’s modern, high-quality code, but it’s for Apple. There are people that have never met me, and have never had any prior interactions with me, that hate (and that’s not hyperbole) me; simply because of that one fact. I’m constantly reading stuff about Apple, and people that use/like/support/develop for Apple, that is intentionally insulting and demeaning…

> I write software for Apple systems. It’s modern, high-quality code, but it’s for Apple. There are people that have never met me, and have never had any prior interactions with me, that hate (and that’s not hyperbole) me; simply because of that one fact. I'm fascinated to hear this. I quite dislike Apple quite a bit as a company/entity, for a variety of pragmatic and philosophical reasons, but the idea that that wou…

Shouldn't be. It's fairly classic human nature.

There's lots of folks with axes to grind, that are excellent spinners, and lots of people that are maybe...a bit insecure, shall we say, that eat that spin, and turn it into venom.

The old "Ford vs. Chevy" spat can get like that. People kill each other over which football teams they like.

It's easy to see why folks don't like Apple; just as it's easy to see why folks don't like every other platform.

It's just that there's a lot of really unbalanced folks out there, and even more folks who like to set those people off.

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#144

Post by jedimastert » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

racl101 wrote: post #105

jedimastert wrote: post #21

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I have kids of my own, and I think it's absolutely possible to do both. My daughter is 4 now, and loves to splash in mud and do all of that stuff. At the same time, she loves doing puzzles and art, which is still normal kid stuff. I think the problem is that the original tweet seems to think that "coding" is only a vocational skill, and it's definitely not. When you're that age, coding is just another form of express…

That lady probably thinks programmers are the way they're depicted in Dilbert lol. Anyways, I agree. It's another form of expression. Just like Math or Music. But I do also agree, in part with her point, that kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something.

> kids should explore possibilities and be kids instead of having to worry about their vocation so young and being put on a track to become something.

Yeah that's a really tough line to track. At some point they're going to develop a sense of purpose and I have no idea when or where or what or how I can nurture it.

ANXIETY

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#145

Post by mpfundstein » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #75

chrisseaton wrote: post #20

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Why do people post nasty things like this?

Why does it feel like HN has become so incredibly sensitive? I have been reading comments here a while (13 years I think), and noticed that in the past couple of years is when critical of any piece of software, no matter how warranted or how tongue in cheek, results in comments like this. How would you have phrased the original sentiment that you wouldn’t think was nasty?

yes. it is becoming terrible. everything might be an offense right now to SOMEONE... when have we become such chickens?

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#146

Post by mpfundstein » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #44

Macha wrote: post #32

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Almost certainly has been edited? Now I wonder what the original post was.

Nah. Wasn't edited, but it was definitely a slap at me, personally. I touched a nerve, and was reprimanded. It was not a "fun" response, and it made me realize that I had caused offense. Teh Internets tubes are a difficult landscape to navigate. It's almost impossible to write stuff without causing some offense. Some folks take that as an admonition to never write anything fun. Others (like me) learn to apologize. I'…

you really make life way too hard for yourself? why the heck would u care if random stranger is offended over a simple joke regarding a programming language? waste of energy man

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#147

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

jamal-kumar wrote: post #109

peteretep wrote: post #66

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Chris, we’re good. As others have pointed out, sometimes an edgy joke gets an edgy response.

Honest question. When did: use strict; Become more commonplace usage?

I've been using it as long as I can remember.

I'm a -wall kinda guy.

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#148

Post by lenkite » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #95

rurban wrote: post #45

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Booking.com also

tbh, I'm still sad that Python won against Perl during the heyday. Perl was and is still a fun language.

If Perl had offered proper OO without all that convoluted bless stuff, offered proper linting, good data-science libs like pandas, easy concurrency, ergonomical web-frameworks to beat PHP and did not get lost in the "everything will be solved by Perl 6" argument, it could have ruled as the Camel of the Web.

Sadly it was not to be.

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#149

Post by TchoBeer » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #140

TchoBeer wrote: post #102

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Is programming a purely vocational skill to you? Do you not find it fun? Exciting? Interesting?

In a way aren't all vocational skills possibly fun, exciting and interesting? I don't really like the idea that there are "bad things" to teach. I can have fun cooking, woodworking, plumbing and even filling my taxes.

That's an excellent point. Maybe the point where it stops being "a fun thing to teach to kids" and becomes "teaching them a job" is when you force them to learn it even when they aren't having fun and don't want to because you think it will help them with a career.

Re: 93% of Paint Splatters Are Valid Perl Programs (2019)

#150

Post by nucleardog » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

LandR wrote: post #24

peteretep wrote: post #6

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I’m sorry the code you produced made you so unhappy EDIT: verb tense changed

Don't take attacks on a tool you like as an attack on you. This is rarely ever the intention, and I'm 100% certain wasn't the intention of the poster here. The tools you use shouldn't be your identity. Chill.

> Don't take attacks on a tool you like as an attack on you.

PHP developers have entered the chat.