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Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

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Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#141

Post by lr4444lr »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

This is almost impossible to enforce. Depts. of Buildings are notoriously slow if the issue is not a clear and present safety hazard. By the time they get out there, the visitor will be long gone.

They have to spend resources on the investigation, and build a pile of evidence. You think someone is gonna stake out every suspected violator for days on end?

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#142

Post by bostonsre »

andrepd wrote: post #95
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

>I've long thought that AirBnB allows people to profit off something that others around them bear the negative externalities from The more you think about it the more you begin to realise that this applies to almost everything you can think of. Our economic system is just bad at properly allocating rewards and value.

Generally, I think that shit rolls down hill and harms those without more often. Which is why I think this airbnb case is so interesting as it inverts the shit rolling direction in some cases. Those that are being disrupted and impacted in this case are those with houses and property. Silicon valley is almost disrupting silicon valley as equally as everyone else for once.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#143

Post by Groxx »

jolux wrote: post #134
Jarwain wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally the fines would pay for the program, but how expensive is it really to have an anonymous phone tip line, and reuse existing infrastructure to fine or ticket a property owner?

> how expensive is it really The answer, as with all govtech, is “a lot more than it should be.” Governments, especially local governments, have no internal technology competence, and have to rely on vendors and contractors for absolutely everything.

It's also a 2-part cost.

To run a tip-line and collect tips: probably very little.

To act on that information, so you're able to identify and punish violators, without which there's no point in having a tip line: looooooots more.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#144

Post by GuB-42 »

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> Reduces housing supply

I am a bit confused about this one. AirBnB does not destroy buildings, and they don't keep places empty, empty buildings make no money. In fact, before it started to be used as pseudo-hotels, it was a way for people to monetize the time they don't spend at home by having a tenant.

I mean, before AirBnB, where were travelers staying? Hotels are the obvious answer, but AFAIK hotels still have customers. So what is happening? Are there more travelers than before (outside of pandemics)?

Not saying that there is no problem with AirBnB, but it shouldn't reduce housing supply unless there is some deeper underlying problem.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#145

Post by Jarwain »

jolux wrote: post #134
Jarwain wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally the fines would pay for the program, but how expensive is it really to have an anonymous phone tip line, and reuse existing infrastructure to fine or ticket a property owner?

> how expensive is it really The answer, as with all govtech, is “a lot more than it should be.” Governments, especially local governments, have no internal technology competence, and have to rely on vendors and contractors for absolutely everything.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a lot of tech involved for a phone line for people to call in tips.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#146

Post by hermitdev »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

Why single out AirBnB? Why not go after Uber, Lyft and others running illegal taxis?

For all the talk of privilege lately, it takes a whole other level to blatantly break the law en masse under the guise of "disruption".

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#147

Post by bostonsre »

jolux wrote: post #136
dorchadas wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this fits into a broader belief that I have, which is that cities should generally be for the residents of them first and foremost It's so weird to me to think that this isn't considered the default view. I 100% agree with it, and think it should be the obvious view, but it's clear there's many who do disagree.

It is the default view. The problem is that our tax structures and zoning regulations incentivize this behavior. We need a land value tax to really put an end to it, and get rid of the laws that stop housing supply from meeting demand in cities across the US.

Yea, I think future residents should be allowed to join a city without being penalized. The artificially constrained housing supply and NIMBY-ism seems very unamerican to me.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#148

Post by naturalauction »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #67
trident5000 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres no supply because investors are hoarding them. Blackrock is buying out entire neighborhoods and thats really the tip of the iceberg compared to airbnb listings.

I would like to see a strict occupancy tax, or ban the amount of real estate a company/person can own. Oh yea, require all real estate purchases to be American, or have legitimate relitaves residing here. We are selling our land with an to anyone in the world with money. I don't know of any country that makes it so easy for the wealthy to buy land. I would love to know which countries allow real estate purchases like…

>I would love to know which countries allow real estate purchases like we do?

Both the UK and Canada for sure. I think Canada is considering a foreign buyers tax but I don’t think it has been implemented yet. In the UK, property taxes don’t even exist - only council taxes paid for by the occupant which makes leasing much easier.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#149

Post by cool_dude85 »

cletus wrote: post #123
intricatedetail wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go. I wonder if enough AirBnB in the area could actually drive property cost down, because nobody would like to live there long term and then essentially wiping off all the profits people made by renting out. In the end only the AirBnB would really profit. It's a business model clearly bases on a loophole and should be closed. If someone wants t…

> The whole concept of residential property as an investment must go. Well, not this exactly. I mean when you rent a property, you're renting it from someone else who owns it. That's what residential property is. So there's really only three broad alternatives here: 1. It's owned by governments at some level. I think we can all agree this would largely be a disaster at any sort of scale; 2. They're owned privately. T…

>1. It's owned by governments at some level. I think we can all agree this would largely be a disaster at any sort of scale;

Not me! I've heard great things about living in Vienna where about 25% of housing is government owned.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#150

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lr4444lr wrote: post #141
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

This is almost impossible to enforce. Depts. of Buildings are notoriously slow if the issue is not a clear and present safety hazard. By the time they get out there, the visitor will be long gone. They have to spend resources on the investigation, and build a pile of evidence. You think someone is gonna stake out every suspected violator for days on end?

> They have to spend resources on the investigation, and build a pile of evidence. You think someone is gonna stake out every suspected violator for days on end?

The property is listed on AirBnB.com, where you get the address and the name of the person operating the AirBnB.

They don't need an elaborate sting operation. They just take the link, test book it through the website, confirm the address and name of the operator from the booking, and they have all the evidence they need. Hit up AirBnB for a refund (illegal rental) and it doesn't even cost them anything. Hour or two of work at most.

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