Live data from Hacker News

Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

telex.hu

141–150 of 542 posts

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#141

Does anyone have any idea how Pegasus actually works? I haven't found any teardowns or even a clear description of what the iMessage says. This is some kind of code injection attack that can go through a text message?

This article from Amnesty International's Security Lab is a good primer on the attack vector used by the Pegasus exploit

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-...

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#142
post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

Why not abolish the EU?

EU nationalism is actually stronger than local nationalism in many circles - I rarely see comments defending any nation state here (except the Swiss, cough, cough, mostly kidding) but any criticism of the EU is met with zealotry.

More pragmatically, the EU makes little sense as anything but an economic block.

The notion that Germans and Greeks are going to accept real transfer payments, common taxation, common fiscal policy and similar rights to healthcare quality is basically ... bonkers. Germany would be the first to split.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Because outside of your bubble nobody wants this. A random person from Bulgaria is going to have a very different culture from a random person from Netherlands. What do you think happens with power in such conglomerate ? If you want to see what happens when you create a forced conglomerate of different nations (but still more simi…

India does this already. With 3x more population and probably has much more diversity and cultural differences than EU.

Indian content has a very long history of common governance in the region and very few opportunities for clear cut delineation. A few, but not many.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#144
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only large countries that did better were the UK and US due to banning the export of vaccines. It's mainly the UK trying to spin this as a propaganda win after BREXIT.

What other comparable developed countries are there ? Australia had it's own isolation thing so it's a different context entirely. Russia had vacation faster, China as well.

Norway, Canada, Switzerland etc.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India does this already. With 3x more population and probably has much more diversity and cultural differences than EU.

India and USA are often cites as examples of federations than EU should look to implement but that comparison is not valid. The US were a blank page, with roughly the same crowd starting with the same common goal and aspirations. Europe comes with 15centuries of nationlike structures and history. Latin and AngloSaxons have very different approaches on life and work (particularly visible in the “PIGS” recent controver…

[deleted]

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#146
post #105
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU is completely helpless against rouge states There is a point where politics depend on good intent. It does not matter if it is the EU, USA or China. If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. The main defense against this situation is that it does not work to improve citizens lives. It only benefits a small part of society and it will mak…

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

> I know nothing about Hungary. But I am quite confident that a happy, well organised society labouring under the grip of sound economic policies tends not to radicalise very easily.

I've travelled a lot in Eastern Europe and I think I know where this is coming from.

When communism fell, people rejoiced in joining the EU and getting all the benefits of a free society. However what really happened was that those spoils went to the people who were desirable employees. Meaning mainly the young (and those happy few with money or connections). Meanwhile the old communist cronies stayed in power and simply became capitalist oligarchs.

On the other side, older people's built up state pensions were cut or removed due to their jobs being privatised to shady agencies owned by these ex-government oligarchs. An easy way to cheat them out of their benefits they worked for. For all its failures, communism did provide them with a sense of continuity and job security that is now lost.

As a result there is now a strong separation between those with opportunities and those without. The haves and have nots. The older people have been abandoned. Of course these people tend to have traditional values and this is what people like Orban target.

I don't think Orban will really make things better for them, he is just a populist seeing a niche to take advantage of. But the disillusionment is real and very clear to me. I've spoken to some well educated poor people that were just too old to be of interest to capitalist companies. And thus ending up living in an apartment with plastic bags for windows (in -20 degrees C). I spoke to a very well educated school teacher who was begging on the street to pay for her husband's cancer treatment. She wasn't one to fall for these populists as she was way too sharp. But I was shocked how society has let an entire class of hard-working people just drop away into insignificance. In Western Europe we have built a balance between capitalism and welfare, but in Eastern Europe they moved straight to a caricature of hard neoliberalism. It caused a big culture shock and left a whole class of people behind.

We (as the EU) have let this happen by letting these states change their industries to capitalism overnight without setting up a proper welfare system. This will not go away until we find a way to give everyone a decent life in these countries. For some people the EU has been nothing but broken promises. Of course that's a breeding ground for dissent and populism.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#147
post #32

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

> The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime Afaik Orban's party has won the last rounds of elections pretty conclusively, with no fraud allegations involved (unlike what currently happens in the US, I'm talking about election fraud allegations). What's with this "Belorussian-style regime" nonsense?

Democracy isn’t merely “majority rule”. It’s also the concept of everyone’s equal value regardless of ethnicity, sexuality, freedom of expression and so on. Merely getting 51% of votes by disregarding those values is neither acceptable nor democratic. And the EU can’t stand for it just like it could t stand for a regime that takes power through violence.

“Belorussian style regime” I assume is in reference to freedom of press/expression/artists/minorities etc in the country.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#148
post #39

All of Netanyahu's allies in the world seem to have profited from this relationship by obtaining military grade surveillance inorder to suppress human rights of journalists and opposition. This is Netanyahu's legacy, a proto dictator, arming dictators. I'm convince pegasus was used against Israeli journalists, opposition leaders and law enforcement officials. Too bad our political system is still under his thumb and…

Hungary aside, most of Israel's allies in the region are dictatorships, actaully all of them: Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco (arguably, let's agree it's not a liberal democracy) and so on and so on. There are zero democracies in the area. So it's easy to see Israel's interest in supplying technology to those regimes and assuring good relations; it's not like the oppositions to these dictators are any bette…

> There are zero democracies in the area

Lebanon used to be more democratic; Iran was democratic at one point. What happened to Mossadegh?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#149
post #91
post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

I am not at all surprised by the popularity of Orbán. An important part is the strong resistance to migrants, which would mean a great influx of mainly Arabs with an incompatible culture and religion compared to Europe. Look to Sweden to see how it goes when you allow too many migrants into a European country. On the other hand there are many serious problems with Orbáns rule, e.g. trying to control the free press, n…

This is what people in Austria said when the Hungarian people were allowed to work here. It was all hate and "they took our jobs".

Many people in the west saw and see the eastern Europeans just as the eastern Europeans see the "Arabs".

I'd honestly rather see my tax money spent on helping a refugee from Africa than see it funneled to corrupt Orban in Hungary.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#150
post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

When you get big enough it's hard to hold people accountable. The US federal government is almost too big already.
Post reply on HN