Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real? • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#141

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

"The most interesting pushback was by Google, Facebook, and Amazon, as well as Chinese giants DJI and Alibaba. All of these firms speak though the trade association Netchoice, which has them as key members. Netchoice didn't bother to try and convince Democrats. Instead, the big tech trade association used the order to lobby Republicans, making the case that Biden's actions against monopoly are opening the door to a larger more powerful government. Here's the key part of Netchoice's statement:

"Sen. Lee and Rep. Jordan's warnings were right - when Republicans back progressive antitrust proposals because of concerns about tech, they open the door to progressive antitrust activism... By backing hard-left proposals, like nominating Lina Khan to the FTC and Rep. Cicilline's antitrust legislation, anti-tech Republicans bear responsibility for the damage that will result from importing a European-style antitrust framework to all sections of the American economy."

Netchoice represents mostly American giants, but also Chinese dominant players. So it's interesting is to see the Chinese tech giants through their lobbying proxy coming out against Biden's anti-monopoly actions, and praising conservative Republicans Jim Jordan and Mike Lee in the process. It's clear that both big tech, and China's own tech giants, do not want to see anti-monopolists like Lina Khan succeed. But conservative Trump-supportive ranchers, by contrast, do."

It is almost as if these "tech" companies are trying to sow divisiveness. Divide and conquer.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#142

Post by Notanothertoo » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #67

throwawayboise wrote: post #28

"Hearing aids cost thousands of dollars apiece, for no other reason than there is a cartel established by government that prevents firms from selling hearing aids without a prescription." An example of how many (most?) monopolies are able to exist because of some sort of legal authorization or protection. Regulatory capture. There are dozens of companies who would no doubt start making inexpensive hearing aids tomorr…

>An example of how many (most?) monopolies are able to exist because of some sort of legal authorization or protection. Regulatory capture. To be clear this "legal authorization or protection" is not necessarily over regulation. Depending on the market, sometimes monopolies are the result of too much government regulation and sometimes they are the result of not enough government regulation. For example, most of the…

Big tech wouldn't have the silos or platform lock downs (ie power/user capture) they have today without the ip legal framework. People would be able to legally circumvent their bs and offer services around gaps in their platforms and would encourage more competition and result in a less monopolistic practice.

I think all monopolies are violence enforced or they are competitive otherwise somebody would step in and undercut their costs and the government has a monopoly on violence so...

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#143

Post by the-dude » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

throwawayswede wrote: post #54

deregulateMed wrote: post #35

Big pharma is significantly less of a problem than the physician and hospital cartels. I have no idea why these groups have survived scrutiny for their literal multi-hundred million dollar lobbying/bribery of politicians. My closest guess is that we all know "My" physician or a well paid nurse that benefits from the bribery.

They're part of the same mafia, Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America spent $8664000 in 2021 only on lobbying. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders

That looks like a big number, but it is $8.6M ? Is that a lot?

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#144

Post by walkedaway » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #141

"The most interesting pushback was by Google, Facebook, and Amazon, as well as Chinese giants DJI and Alibaba. All of these firms speak though the trade association Netchoice, which has them as key members. Netchoice didn't bother to try and convince Democrats. Instead, the big tech trade association used the order to lobby Republicans, making the case that Biden's actions against monopoly are opening the door to a l…

> It is almost as if these "tech" companies are trying to sow divisiveness

It's worked in their business model for over a decade. Their actions over the last five years have shown they have built up operations as core competencies in helping divide our country. Although one could argue they are just delivering what their customers want (otherwise customers would leave said platforms).

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#145

Post by Notanothertoo » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

annadane wrote: post #36

Jenk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some is better than none.

No, this is Hacker News, where we have to gripe about every single little thing until it loses all fucking meaning Edit: you downvote me because you know this is exactly how it goes around here

Yes and that's a good thing. Politics is mostly a game of pretend and therefore bullshit, as uhh.. engineers we like to be more practical. We simply see the bullshit they are selling regardless of political affiliation. If they wanted to actually solve problems the approach and results would be totally different.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#146

Post by walkedaway » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #67

throwawayboise wrote: post #28

"Hearing aids cost thousands of dollars apiece, for no other reason than there is a cartel established by government that prevents firms from selling hearing aids without a prescription." An example of how many (most?) monopolies are able to exist because of some sort of legal authorization or protection. Regulatory capture. There are dozens of companies who would no doubt start making inexpensive hearing aids tomorr…

>An example of how many (most?) monopolies are able to exist because of some sort of legal authorization or protection. Regulatory capture. To be clear this "legal authorization or protection" is not necessarily over regulation. Depending on the market, sometimes monopolies are the result of too much government regulation and sometimes they are the result of not enough government regulation. For example, most of the…

> do not exist because of regulatory capture

It's reasonable to conclude that Facebook and Twitter have benefitted greatly by not having expenses to properly monitor their platform due to section 230 safe harbor exemption. They are able to get away with selective enforcement on their platform and not pay a monetary penalty for doing so.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#147

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

mgerdts wrote: post #100

toomuchtodo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bose’s hearing aids were recently approved by the FDA, and they’re only $850. The APM Marketplace program recently covered this development and the hearing aid monopoly. The sky isn’t going to fall. https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381444600/marketplace https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/headphones/earbuds/sound...

$850 each and as of a month or so ago only available in 3 states. At Costco you can get what seem to be high end hearing aids for $699 each. The current generation are rechargeable and support bluetooth. This includes the free hearing test free fitting ("real ear", which is current best practice) and followup so long as you have a membership. The key thing that is lacking is a decent app or api for me to write my own…

Half seriously, Medicare should consider including a Costco membership with their coverage for the elderly.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#148

Post by comex » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #118

tomc1985 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Driving with headphones is forbidden where I am. And at minimum you need to be able to hear a carhorn.

And emergency sirens/bullhorns, motorcycles, train horns at unguarded railroad crossing gates, etc.

Even assuming that’s true, if your hearing suddenly cuts out, and you decide to pull over in response, the chance you’ll encounter one of those objects in the few seconds it takes to pull over is rather low.

For this to be a real danger, either the driver would have to not notice that they suddenly couldn’t hear anything, or the faulty hearing aid would have to pass through some sounds but not others. Both of those scenarios seem pretty unlikely.

Meanwhile, from some quick googling, it seems to be common for completely deaf people to drive; apparently there are devices that can translate sirens and such into visual cues, but such devices are not universally used. To be fair, it’s a bit different if you’re not expecting it or practiced at it.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#149

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #133

giantg2 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In today's world, 20 years could mean the patented object is obsolete by the time it is public domain. Having exclusive use of the technology for the duration of it's useful life expectancy seems like a monopoly to me...

Yes, there is probably a good argument to be made that many patents should have a shorter protected period. Also the "non obvious" requirement for an invention seems to need more emphasis, when an idea like "one click ordering" can be patented.

I really feel like ideas shouldn't be patented at all, just their implementation.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#150

Post by colordrops » Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #139

worik wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economies of scale, when viewed from the perspective of a cattle beast in a feed lot are a horrible thing in agriculture. Modern industrial agriculture with its expensive inputs, ruination of land, and abuse of live stock is a quite horrifying thing and is impoverishing the people responsible for the base of our food supply. It is the most efficient in terms of output per input, but not by most other measures.

But you don't need to be a monopoly or even a big company to have an awful feedlots, monocrop farming, ect.

What you say is true in theory but not in aggregate. It's no different from any other business in that respect. Look at companies in a field you are familiar with and you will find that the very large ones are a lot more impersonal, ruthlessly efficient, and amoral.