How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix? • Hacker News Board

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#141

Post by dpwm » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:06 AM UTC

jerzyt wrote: post #103

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

What Netflix is doing is hiding the fact that they have very little new content. If they implemented all your suggestions, I'd have about 3 titles to watch, which I would like, but they're worried that I'd cancel the subscription.

The kind of content that works well for Netflix does not work so well for me. They introduce just enough content that works for me that I don’t cancel the subscription.

I still find it a marvel that despite the majority of content introduced being not for me, I have been able to watch something unseen approximately every night and have given up on so little. In that sense, it is better than TV – even if the impression I get from the new content I scroll past is that it appears to be following all the same trends that made TV less appealing to me.

The most irritating consequence of this content problem for me is that nothing remains in the same place. Is continue watching going to be one, two or even three down button presses tonight? The reward is occasionally something gets suggested that is worth watching that would have been found anyway within a few minutes of searching.

I would imagine what they’re doing makes sense for the majority, but it would be wonderfully nice if there were some kind of alternate "advanced" mode for people who understand the lack of content where all this suggested and popular stuff went away and the search filter improved.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#142

Post by dpwm » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

LaundroMat wrote: post #104

stepbeek wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the end they will promote what they WANT to be popular This is a hugely important point. I'm completely uninterested in most netflix originals, but I understand why they're going to continue to recommend them to me.

I'd like a way to filter out the Netflix Originals too.

The problem with this is that Netflix Originals apparently gets slapped on stuff that Netflix bought post-production or financed as a co-production.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#143

Post by Delk » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #129

IncRnd wrote: post #29

I was a solver on a different team for the netflix challenge. Our team didn't win the grand prize. I would have expected that a blog post would discuss how this was structured. Netflix contracted with innocentive.com, which is a website for solvers, and contracting to that website expanded Netflix's reach to a greater available pool of solvers. As far as I recall, all the allowed solvers for the netflix challenge _ha…

Note, not just the original listing has been taking down, but also the data used in the challenge. I believe because a few people in that set actually got de-anonimized. But certainly because of privacy concerns. I think the data is still kicking around somewhere in torrent land. I also still have my own copy somewhere, I think.

IIRC it had something to do with researchers being able to statistically identify Netflix users by using IMDB for comparison.

A Wired article from 2010 [1] suggests it lead to some legal liability risks for Netflix.

[1] https://www.wired.com/2010/03/netflix-cancels-contest/

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#144

Post by rkachowski » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:20 AM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #97

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Completely agree. I am constantly baffled at the bullshit Netflix suggests me. I just went to the frontpage of my Netflix and...: - "My list" recommends 3 series where I have alread watched the last episode - "Only on Netflix" recommends another two series, I have already wathed. - A section displayed is "Watch together for older kids" - I dont have kids, never watched any kids stuff on my account. - "Documentaries"…

I always took the "older kids" thing to mean "adults interested in cartoons" rather than "teenagers".

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#145

Post by ichik » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #83

makeitdouble wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how many corporations don't actually "run the numbers" on what we think are important issues. Basically, internal focus and what the rest of the world cares about are disjointed and corps are often blind to obvious aspects. This can be improved by strong internal diversity, but Netflix doesn't look like a bastion of that (yet?) On "just ok" vs stuff actually enjoyable, "just ok" is fine until there i…

Wouldn't this be a short term vs long term optimization thing? In the short term "just ok" wins. In the long term, users might get bored and new users are less likely to join. Or at least that's my gut feeling, i have nothing to back it up.

Not necessarily, the power of habit can be very strong.

The users who only watch a couple of things are the ones who are more likely to “get bored”, because in any given month there is a higher chance that there won't be any single thing they'd want to watch. Whereas someone who just does it regularly (say every day after work while eating dinner or w/e) is more likely to keep that habit.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#146

Post by quietbritishjim » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #97

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Completely agree. I am constantly baffled at the bullshit Netflix suggests me. I just went to the frontpage of my Netflix and...: - "My list" recommends 3 series where I have alread watched the last episode - "Only on Netflix" recommends another two series, I have already wathed. - A section displayed is "Watch together for older kids" - I dont have kids, never watched any kids stuff on my account. - "Documentaries"…

"My list" is not algorithmically generated; it's a list of shows you have chosen to add to it. It would be nice if have you the option to remove a show from it when you finished it but very annoying if it did it automatically behind your back. Although clearly the real problem here is that "my list" isn't a clear enough description to show you manually control it (but I don't have a better suggestion).

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#147

Post by RobertoG » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:03 AM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #137

fighterpilot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most annoying thing about these streaming platforms is no IMDB rating being displayed. I have to type in every suggestion one by one which is annoying, or use a third party search engine. It'd be such a huge UX boost to simply include the rating, and better yet allow filtering by rating, I really don't get it. Perhaps they're trying to build network effects around their own rating system but it really detracts fr…

Maybe it's because filtering by rating would expose how shallow the catalogue is? At least in my locale a good way to be reminded of this is searching for any movie you'd like to watch but isn't on the front page of netflix, typically they won't have it.

I think you are right. My impression is that all the UI is dedicated to fool the user perception of the catalog, to make it look better than it is.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#148

Post by Avalaxy » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #3

I've always wondered about this. I first read about this challenge in "Programming Collective Intelligence,"[0] the O'Reilly book from 2007 that drove me to become a professional programmer. It starts like this: > Netflix is an online DVD rental company that lets people choose movies to be sent to their homes, and makes recommendations based on the movies that customers have previously rented. It was a different and…

It's a good book! I read it before we started calling it "artificial intelligence" or "machine learning". It was just data mining back then. I think the book and the algorithms in it are still very relevant today.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#149

Post by rajasimon » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:18 AM UTC

computerphage wrote: post #124

fighterpilot wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most annoying thing about these streaming platforms is no IMDB rating being displayed. I have to type in every suggestion one by one which is annoying, or use a third party search engine. It'd be such a huge UX boost to simply include the rating, and better yet allow filtering by rating, I really don't get it. Perhaps they're trying to build network effects around their own rating system but it really detracts fr…

IMDb is owned by Amazon. Amazon Prime shows IMDb ratings in its app.

They display IMDB rating only for some titles and it has to pass certain level of rating ( 6 +)

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#150

Post by hellbannedguy » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #118

dspillett wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, Netflix’ engine is the reason I left Netflix That seems rather odd to me. I can believe it was a final straw after other reasons like running out of content you particularly want (absolutely or in comparison with other services), but not it begin "the" reason. I don't particularly pay attention to the recommendations on either Netflix or Amazon, instead picking up things I might like to try from external sourc…

I cancelled Netflix subscription because I was not finding anything worth watching. I tried downvoting unwanted featured movies, they continued to be featured. Once my listing was filled solely with already watched or downvoted movies I cancelled account. I suspect that Netflix had some movies that I would gladly watch, but if they show what I explicitly marked as invented...

They need to buy better old movies.

Their catalogue of award winning, or good movies is very low.

I think the problem is the studios figured why rent them to Netflix when we can put up our own OnDemand service?

So, Netflix was at a conundrum, "How do we get material so people won't leave, and we can raise our prices?"

Overpaid Netflix MBA, "I got it! Let's throw money at directors, and writers. The directors will make make our movies because we pay well. The writers will churn out cliched filled scripts, and put every plot twist into everything they write. The average viewer isn't here to watch quality, we will give them a huge bat of lousy material. It will be like feeding the hogs with slop?"

Amazon Prime video seems to have a better library for those that appreciate good movies.

I did like The Twillight Zone, and Star Trek, when I had Netflix though.

(Years ago Netflix offered every episode of the Zone, and Trek. I got every silgle episode through the mail, and copied to dvd using---dvd something? They come in handy if xfinity goes out.

Oh yea, Xfinity was charging a family member $260 a month. I painfully got. down to 130 a month. She was loosing $1390 a year for probally a decade--with pretty much the same plan.

Xfinity should be broken up, or better regulated by authorities. I literally gave up trying to rectify the situation talking to three people who could barely speak english. The last Ecuadorean guy's english was so bad, I gave up, and just picked the cheapest plan on Comcast, and prayed the bill would go down.

A Xfinity employee told me the current business plan is just "milk" long term customers with confusing bills, and deals. They don't care about cord cutters. They know they will always have a large percent of people who will just pay because their isn't a real option in their county, and many older people are not computer savvy.

Hell I'm computer savvy, but their application interface is purposely confusing. I could sware they are randomenly switching prices over the phone, and through their application. I hope someone outs them if my hunch is right.