141–150 of 155 posts
That logo of money changing hands makes a bad impression IMHO. It made me laugh, but I doubt that's their goal. It seems like self-parody, though I'm sure it's not.
and i can properly map the elusive people on there, nice ;)
That logo of money changing hands makes a bad impression IMHO. It made me laugh, but I doubt that's their goal. It seems like self-parody, though I'm sure it's not.
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money is used to empower the wrong people, take a look at our society, people who invest live a better life than people who take care of our elderly people, worse they live a better life than the people who are cleaning our cities
worse, they live a better life than researchers, and scientists
money is a dumb thing, nowadays
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The whole point of UBI is to remove means testing. I think we can set a number that works on average and let people move to suit their needs. We definitely should avoid all incentives to game the system as it will only distract and get the initiative bogged down in paper pushing bs.
Unfortunately, living standards differ too much within the EU for that.
>The flip side is it's much easier to make up the difference due to the increased economic opportunity in . If you can't it's a good incentive to move somewhere cheaper in turn reducing the pressure on housing in .
Say I'd like to live in Monaco or Luxembourg. No one owes me that privilege. I can't just demand to get that. Even if I get a job in a grocery store or whatever to legitimise my residency.
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> Most extant forms of welfare exist because at the time of their creation they allowed some group of politicans to buy the votes of some subset of the population. In order to reliably capture those votes, the welfare system has to represent a substantive transfer of wealth from whoever is getting screwed to whoever is selling their vote. Do you have any source on that? One of the original welfare systems, in Imperia…
> Do you have any source on that? Mindlessly asking for a source on every claim or observation is one of the silliest and most annoying things people on HN tend to do. It’s an original observation, not some shit I regurgitated from a book. You’d swear 90% of the people here thought you weren’t allowed to have a thought unless you published it in an academic journal. If you read the thread under my comment, you’ll fin…
As you might have noticed from the rest of my answer, i disagree with your observation, hence the question about sources or any extra information to help me understand how you got there.
So, some of the original and most popular welfare states - Imperial Germany, post-wars UK disagree with your observation.
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What I don’t get is how can anyone else decide how much UBI I need to do what I want to do, art/science/sports? Currently people decide how much work they are willing to do - want more stuff, earn more money to buy more stuff We are already seeing the disaster of Social Security benefits not being enough to fund retirement - how will this work when people don’t even work to save for retirement
B is for Basic, not funding your passion projects. Enough for simple food and housing somewhere relatively cheap. You want more? You work. Work not working out? You can fall back to the basics without being afraid for your survival. If it's enough to enable you to do what you want without working, then it's enough. If it's not you find a way to get more. There are a lot of problems with people in tough situations whe…
This petition is explicitly about giving everyone a middle class lifestyle for no contributions.
People are quite content at middle class lifestyle.
We're not talking "struggling artist" here, we're talking "yeah, I'm doing quite well. Haven't quite decided what my book will be about yet, though".
Like the parent comment said, we're already failing at funding social security even with the classical age pyramid (which is disappearing, by the way), and now we want to expand that to not just seniors but EVERYONE?
It's just completely unworkable.
For the other things you mention, yes we do have a bunch of social problems. UBI is not the answer, or at least isn't the answer in the form this petition asks for. Two things are ridiculous: the "U" in UBI stands for zero means-testing, and in this petition made explicit again. The second is that middle-class is just way too high to aim for.
I'm in favour of more spending on the poor and homeless, even when it's not "fair". I'm even for less "punishment" and more "rehabilitation" for crimes, even when it's not "fair". Society is better off if (hyperbole alert here) criminals are rewarded for their crimes by getting education and support, than if they're stomped on.
But the idea of UBI (as proposed here) is broken on every level, with society-ending first and second order effects.
People add value to society because they get "social credits" (aka money), that they can then use to better their own lives or their causes.
If you remove that aspect then people will do what they want, not what needs to be done or is valued.
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Agreed that it’s too scarce on details. The obvious problem here is that UBI only makes sense if you take those other programs out (no public healthcare, no public pensions), but it will be unthinkable for most europeans to loose those. There’s no way to sell a change that requires people to take that amount of personal responsibility, especially when they’ve enjoyed life without them. I also hate that what was a goo…
UBI would replace a lot of existing social security programs, pensions and health care are jone of those candidates.
You’ll find the odd case of someone who instead of paying their health insurance decided to gamble their income or spent it on drugs. If UBI truly replaces public health, these people won’t have health services. There’s a snowballs chance in hell that you’ll be able to sell this politically in the EU.
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Unfortunately, living standards differ too much within the EU for that.
I don't think that is a concern. I had this exact conversation on Reddit a couple days ago. What I wrote: >The flip side is it's much easier to make up the difference due to the increased economic opportunity in . If you can't it's a good incentive to move somewhere cheaper in turn reducing the pressure on housing in . Say I'd like to live in Monaco or Luxembourg. No one owes me that privilege. I can't just demand to…