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Microsoft announces Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#141

Post by xoa »

danirod wrote: post #15
fader wrote: post #5

Putting the start menu button in the middle of the panel rather than at a corner seems to forget Fitts' Law. Is this a push to make people use hotkeys more or just bad design?

While it is a totally legit point, the macOS dock hasn't been corner aligned since OS X 10.0 too and it seems people got used to it. Probably not a big deal after all most of the time.

The Dock isn't the equivalent to the Start Menu, the closest Mac equivalent is the Apple menu. That dates back to I think the very beginning of the Macintosh, and particularly in the classic era (Mac OS 1 through 9) shared a lot more in common with the Start menu. When Apple was just first barely dipping a toe in the waters of multitasking applications with the 1987 MultiFinder, the Apple menu let you switch between running applications. Also was where desk accessories went, though there were limits (which 3rd parties quickly created offerings working around :)). System 7 expanded it a lot, with a dedicated way to put aliases of docs/software in the menu. Mac OS X and the dock actually kind of split out some of that functionality for better or worse.

But through it all the Apple has stayed glued in the top left corner of the screen, the furthest left thing on the menu bar. The one time they briefly contemplated eliminating it/moving it to the center was IIRC in the Mac OS X public beta (which I think I still have lying around here somewhere, would be a hoot to try to get it running again under QEMU maybe?). But there was harsh feedback from a lot of us in the PB on that one and it was restored from 10.0, so there was never a public release of a "Mac OS" without it. And even though it's visually offset a bit from the edge of the menu and when you click the highlight box also seems offset from the side, that doesn't actually affect the clickable area one bit. You can jam your mouse to the upper corner pixel blind and it'll still open right up. They've stuck with Fitt's Law on that one at least even amongst all their other GUI "innovations" in the last few decades.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#142

Post by wvenable »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #70
fader wrote: post #5

Putting the start menu button in the middle of the panel rather than at a corner seems to forget Fitts' Law. Is this a push to make people use hotkeys more or just bad design?

It's bad design in the sense that they took a part of the operating system that's been in the same place for a quarter century and moved it for seemingly no reason while leaving a bunch of other neglected issues to be dealt with later. I guess fixing the damned control panel and various settings apps isn't sexy enough. Frankly this whole update stinks of "oh we hired a bunch of new MBAs and they have to make their ma…

I think it's ironic how often HN discusses various software development methodologies, release early-and-often, etc. But Microsoft slowly iterating on the Settings panel over time is seen as a bad thing.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#145

Post by nix23 »

0xEFF wrote: post #54
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #16

> " Microsoft is also integrating Microsoft Teams directly into Windows 11, for both consumers and commercial users. " Not that I have any objections to Teams per se but attempting to drive adoption by bundling got Microsoft in trouble in the IE era; didn't they learn their lesson? Either way, probably the first thing I'll be doing after a fresh install of Windows 11 is uninstalling Teams.

They didn’t get in trouble for bundling IE. The got in trouble for legal and technical restrictions on using alternatives to IE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... .

They got in trouble in the EU, that's why they had to make a version without ie > Windows 7 E

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#146

Post by rhengles »

_benj wrote: post #49

I honestly was expecting more "innovation", more daring decisions and deep convictions that "this new way", even though it might get some backlash, will prove to improve the wellbeing of it's users, even if they don't know it yet. I haven't seen anything like that since the days of Steven Jobs and it kind of saddens me. Have we reached a plateau in tech? Are we just up for making more of the same, just a little diffe…

They tried that with Windows 8, the backslash was so enormous that I think they will be on the safe side and stick with 'familiarity' for the foreseeable future.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#148

Post by MikusR »

jimbob45 wrote: post #87
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #16

> " Microsoft is also integrating Microsoft Teams directly into Windows 11, for both consumers and commercial users. " Not that I have any objections to Teams per se but attempting to drive adoption by bundling got Microsoft in trouble in the IE era; didn't they learn their lesson? Either way, probably the first thing I'll be doing after a fresh install of Windows 11 is uninstalling Teams.

Does that mean it's finally becoming a native app? By far the worst part of MS Teams is that it's slow and can't really help when it can't connect to its servers because it's just a web page.

It's moving from electron to webview2

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#149

Post by satysin »

Semaphor wrote: post #131
satysin wrote: post #94

So to summerize what they have announced (so far) - * A new look task bar. Centred similar to the macOS dock by default but lacking the ability to position on any other screen edge? * A new start menu design * Windows have rounded corners * Some built in apps such as the Xbox app and Microsoft Store have been redesigned (Xbox Game Pass and xCloud built into the Xbox app) * New touch keyboard (SwiftKey?) with improved…

> lacking the ability to position on any other screen edge? I didn’t watch the video, and your question mark gives me hope: Was this actually said? A horizontal taskbar would be horrible.

They didn't say however in the leaked build last week the taskbar could not be moved to the left, right or top of the screen as it previously could.

Hopefully it was just a limitation in that particular developer build.

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