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Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

nytimes.com

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Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#141

Post by lostcolony »

bserge wrote: post #8
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

> Finally, officers said they were asked to handle too much; they were constantly thrown at tangled societal problems like mental health breakdowns or drug overdoses, they said, for which they were ill-equipped — then blamed when things went wrong. Sounds like they've got some common ground with the "defund the police" folks, if they'd listen a bit.

I'm guessing it would've been better if they went with "Distribute funds properly" instead of "Defund the police".

We have approximately 400 years of "black people should be treated equal to whites". 50+ since the Civil Rights Era of "hey, there's some systemic racial issues we need to address as a country". Sure, you can argue that "Black Lives Matter" is just too hard to understand, but it -has- brought attention to the issue.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#142

Post by [deleted] »

nradov wrote: post #19
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

Policing has to be one of the hardest jobs in our modern society, I honestly couldn't event imagine the stress. Imagine picking up a JIRA ticket at work and not knowing if that ticket is going to a run of the mill bug fix or something that can kill you. That's just out of the realm of possibility for an SWE but for a cop it can be any one of the calls they take on a daily basis. I've always had respect for cops becau…

Law enforcement can be dangerous but it's only #22 in occupational death rates. Lumberjacks and roofers are far more likely to get killed. https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...

[deleted]

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#143

Post by smileysteve »

uhtred wrote: post #47
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

Policing has to be one of the hardest jobs in our modern society, I honestly couldn't event imagine the stress. Imagine picking up a JIRA ticket at work and not knowing if that ticket is going to a run of the mill bug fix or something that can kill you. That's just out of the realm of possibility for an SWE but for a cop it can be any one of the calls they take on a daily basis. I've always had respect for cops becau…

In civilized countries where guns aren't ubiquitous most police call outs won't be for something that can kill them. It's bizarre to me that it's just normal in America to expect someone to have a gun. Also, let's not pretend a lot of them aren't doing it for the power trip.

I'm of the belief that the US model of policing is incompatible with an expected armed society;

This can be seen in police shootings vs armed militias at protests.. If police approached every suspect as if the suspect were open carrying a high powered semi auto pistol, they'd be much less likely to approach suspects as they do. They'd be much more respectful, keep a vehicle between them, and focus on de-escalation as opposed to confrontation.

And in a country with 44% of suspects owning a fire arm, to confront someone is the wrong move.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#144

Post by ceejayoz »

throwkeep wrote: post #138
ijustlovemath wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meaning of "diverting funding to other resources" has been a consensus in the community for a very long time. It's only recently that "defund" has been conflated with "abolish," which has always been a very very small niche of the police reform community.

Sitting member of Congress: "No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed." https://mobile.twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status/1381745303997... Sitting member of Congress: "We can’t reform this." https://mobile.twitter.com/AyannaPressley/status/13817027443... Activist with 475k followers whose name is currently: "DEFUND & ABOLISH POLICE" https://mobile.twitter.com/BreeNewsome Ben & Jerrys: "T…

Highlighting "a very very small niche" of politicians/activists isn't really debunking the "a very very small niche of the police reform community" claim.

I like Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib, but they can hardly be claimed to be the mainstream portion of Congress, or even Congressional Democrats.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#145

Post by RankingMember »

bena wrote: post #114
RankingMember wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit of a broad brush there, innit? Who is "they"?

The police. It's funny how you question my use of "they" but not the person I responded to. His "they" isn't broad?

He's talking about a known slogan. You're speculating as to what that group "wants".

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#146

Post by caeril »

sidlls wrote: post #58
ct0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion of cops has changed as i've gotten older. I used to think they had nothing better to do but bother me, the youth, but in hindsight they have too much to do and are expected to always be on, alert, and accountable. Something that takes a lot of courage. I respect them more, especially after the extremely divisive events of the past 2-3 years, riots, attacks, etc.

I have a different view. I saw a lot of friends lose their fathers and mothers to the system thanks to dirty cops. Being white in a poor (understatement) neighborhood was an enlightening experience. The police are very powerful voices in local governments. They have too much power. I consider the number of police officers to be inversely proportional to how civilized a place is.

> the number of police officers to be inversely proportional to how civilized a place is.

On a police-per-capita basis, that would make US East Coast urban areas substantially less civilized than either Middle America or the West Coast.

https://www.governing.com/archive/police-officers-per-capita...

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#147

Post by MrRadar »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #7

Guys, police are self-abolishing. Victory is within grasp. But seriously. Why is this surprising? This is a completely rational reaction of people who feel they're being unfairly demonized as a group despite most of them being professional and doing their jobs the best they can with the training and incentives they're given. Enjoy the crime wave.

The problem is that police have very little accountability to the citizens they are policing. I live in Minneapolis which has been at the center of these controversies, and the closest citizens get to influencing police policy is by electing the mayor who appoints the police chief who then (in theory) sets the policies. In practice, even if we elect a reform-minded mayor who appoints a similarly-minded chief who sets good policy it's up to the officers to follow that policy and they often tend to just ignore policies that they do not like.

Additionally, the police officers who work in the city do not live in the city and are much whiter and more conservative than the city's overall population (reminder that Minneapolis's current representative in the House of Representatives is Ilhan Omar, a Somali immigrant who is one of the most progressive members of the House). It should not be a surprise that the citizens of Minneapolis do not like people with a different cultural background applying force against them, all while we pay six figure salaries to them through our tax dollars.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#148

Post by thera2 »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #33
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine just doing your best to help your local community by building some online community notice board, only for a rabid horde to start picketing your house, shouting ALL PROGRAMMERS ARE BASTARDS!!!

The problem is lots of police members don't do their best to help their local communities, and the ones that do stand behind that ones that definitely don't.

I'm glad to hear you conducted a thorough survey with the millions of good police officers out there and found out they support the bad apples. If only everyone had access to this unprecedented data you have collected, we could finally put this matter to rest.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#149

Post by zepto »

brutusborn wrote: post #124
roenxi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a consensus committee that announces what 'the community' thinks? Because in my experience the community is quite divided on most topics and tends to come to a consensus using the literal meaning of words. There is always a risk that people chanting "defund the police" mean they want to, simply and literally, defund the police. If they want something different they should be chanting that instead.

Our language is full of ambiguities, and this is one. Both interpretations are listed in the Cambridge dictionary. The truth is: clarity require lots of words, and that makes a terrible slogan. Most people react stronger to a slogan than a nuanced discussion, so the messy slogans will remain.

That doesn’t mean a bad slogan like Defund the police isn’t just divisive, ill-advised, and harmful.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#150

Post by joejerryronnie »

_fat_santa wrote: post #3

Policing has to be one of the hardest jobs in our modern society, I honestly couldn't event imagine the stress. Imagine picking up a JIRA ticket at work and not knowing if that ticket is going to a run of the mill bug fix or something that can kill you. That's just out of the realm of possibility for an SWE but for a cop it can be any one of the calls they take on a daily basis. I've always had respect for cops becau…

Also imagine that your profession has become so highly politicized that many people actually hate you based on some misguided ideology vs how you have actually comported yourself while on the job. While I respect law enforcement, you couldn’t pay me enough to work in that field. Although . . . big tech is also becoming highly politicized so many of us may find ourselves in the same boat to one degree or another.
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