Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed • Hacker News Board

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#141

Post by soco » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #136

rsj_hn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Liberal democracy is basically vanquished in Asia, right at the time that Asia seems to be poised to dominate economically and demographically. Liberal democracy isn't making any inroads in Africa and Russia has certainly given it a firm no, with the Vysehrad states in Eastern Europe also turning away. Basically only Latin America is up for grabs at the moment and the results there seem mixed at best. We coul…

I am from one of the Visegrad states. Our democracy is mostly in the same flawed state, with a recent addition of Twitter outrages over culture war topics. This is no surprise; a flawed democracy is precisely what the original Austria-Hungary once was, more flawed in Hungary, less flawed in Austria.

One could say the actual flawed state is a huge step forward from the flawed state of 30 years ago. When we cherry pick examples to compare to, we tend to miss a lot...

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#142

Post by tln750 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #138

tln750 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberation in Advaita Vedanta is attaining the realization that one's individual self is identical with Brahman, posited as Higher Self. This is diametrically at odds with the anatta (not-self) doctrine of the Buddha. There is simply no common ground here - I am sorry, but you are washing away key doctrinal differences with a sweep. When Adi Sankara himself condemned Buddhadhamma as incomprehensible heresy, and yet y…

> Liberation in Advaita Vedanta is attaining the realization that one's individual self is identical with Brahman, posited as Higher Self. This is diametrically at odds with the anatta (not-self) doctrine of the Buddha. This is not true, there's no conflict. The Buddha was not interested in abstract doctrines but only in what was most pragmatically useful for attaining stream entry, enlightenment and liberation from…

Your assertion that there is no doctrinal difference between Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta is ludicrous and downright silly. Even Wikipedia clarifies this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara

From the second para:

He also explained the key difference between Hinduism and Buddhism, stating that Hinduism asserts "Ātman (Soul, Self) exists", while Buddhism asserts that there is "no Soul, no Self".

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#143

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

random314 wrote: post #139

naruvimama wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that, most of them are namesake secular. Filter out countries that have had large scale ethnic cleansing or genocide in the last 70 years. Filter out those countries which have 99% muslims. Filter out those which do not have some form of sharia imposed. Even though both muslims and Hindus in India want a better future for themselves and their children. Muslims have shown their willingness to engage in a…

BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration? Also, for your laundry list of objections that you created with zero research - here is Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Albania#Debates_... There are more, but I will let you do the research. Maybe you will find an example in a secular muslim majority state whe…

> BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state

The relevant word there is obviously "Hindu", but the Permit Raj system in India is more than 70 years old. Is there really a national alternative to the BJP that's less authoritarian/corporatist/fascist and more freedom oriented, in a way that would meaningfully benefit the average Indian?

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#144

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

tln750 wrote: post #142

zozbot234 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liberation in Advaita Vedanta is attaining the realization that one's individual self is identical with Brahman, posited as Higher Self. This is diametrically at odds with the anatta (not-self) doctrine of the Buddha. This is not true, there's no conflict. The Buddha was not interested in abstract doctrines but only in what was most pragmatically useful for attaining stream entry, enlightenment and liberation from…

Your assertion that there is no doctrinal difference between Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta is ludicrous and downright silly. Even Wikipedia clarifies this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara From the second para: He also explained the key difference between Hinduism and Buddhism, stating that Hinduism asserts "Ātman (Soul, Self) exists", while Buddhism asserts that there is "no Soul, no Self".

I didn't say that no doctrinal difference exists, only that Anatta is highly compatible with the truth of a Higher Atman. You only mentioned Higher Atman in your previous comment, not common, individualistic meaning of Atman.

For that matter, even Shankara's description of the Atman is entirely in the negative, stating what the Atman is not. So even while accepting the existence of the Atman, he's clearly tending towards a universalist description that, again, is quite compatible with a practical understanding of the Buddhist doctrine of not-Atman.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#145

Post by naruvimama » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:29 AM UTC

random314 wrote: post #139

naruvimama wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you say that, most of them are namesake secular. Filter out countries that have had large scale ethnic cleansing or genocide in the last 70 years. Filter out those countries which have 99% muslims. Filter out those which do not have some form of sharia imposed. Even though both muslims and Hindus in India want a better future for themselves and their children. Muslims have shown their willingness to engage in a…

BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration? Also, for your laundry list of objections that you created with zero research - here is Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Albania#Debates_... There are more, but I will let you do the research. Maybe you will find an example in a secular muslim majority state whe…

Every muslim majority state is a facist state.

India's diversity is safe as long as it is a Hindu state. I would like India to become a Hindu Rashta.

With the creation of Pakistan, it is only fair for India to become a Hindu state.

The history of Islam & Christianity clearly show the genocide that they have carried out across the world. We would like to preserve what we are.

You are just being an Islamic apologist.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#146

Post by random314 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #143

random314 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration? Also, for your laundry list of objections that you created with zero research - here is Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Albania#Debates_... There are more, but I will let you do the research. Maybe you will find an example in a secular muslim majority state whe…

> BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state The relevant word there is obviously "Hindu", but the Permit Raj system in India is more than 70 years old. Is there really a national alternative to the BJP that's less authoritarian/corporatist/fascist and more freedom oriented, in a way that would meaningfully benefit the average Indian?

Virtually any party would be less authoritarian and fascist. Manmohan Singh was the last prime minister. The average Indian would benefit from a better economy, employment opportunities, fearlessness from cow and other vigilantes, sedition charges for expressing political opinions. Muslims in kashmir, lakshwadeep and Sikhs would feel safer.

BJP losing would boost national pride. Right now Indians are considered a joke. I have been personally asked to go drink cow piss on various forums. Plastering cow dung all over the body and ridiculous statements about gold in cow milk will be stripped from text books. Money invested in ayush ministry and central vista will be used in health spending.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shitbjpsays/

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#147

Post by random314 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:39 AM UTC

naruvimama wrote: post #145

random314 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration? Also, for your laundry list of objections that you created with zero research - here is Albania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Albania#Debates_... There are more, but I will let you do the research. Maybe you will find an example in a secular muslim majority state whe…

Every muslim majority state is a facist state. India's diversity is safe as long as it is a Hindu state. I would like India to become a Hindu Rashta. With the creation of Pakistan, it is only fair for India to become a Hindu state. The history of Islam & Christianity clearly show the genocide that they have carried out across the world. We would like to preserve what we are. You are just being an Islamic apologist.

I like your confidence.

Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration?

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#148

Post by zozbot234 » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 9:42 AM UTC

random314 wrote: post #146

zozbot234 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BJP is pushing for a Hindu ethno-fascist state The relevant word there is obviously "Hindu", but the Permit Raj system in India is more than 70 years old. Is there really a national alternative to the BJP that's less authoritarian/corporatist/fascist and more freedom oriented, in a way that would meaningfully benefit the average Indian?

Virtually any party would be less authoritarian and fascist. Manmohan Singh was the last prime minister. The average Indian would benefit from a better economy, employment opportunities, fearlessness from cow and other vigilantes, sedition charges for expressing political opinions. Muslims in kashmir, lakshwadeep and Sikhs would feel safer. BJP losing would boost national pride. Right now Indians are considered a jok…

> fearlessness from cow and other vigilantes ... Muslims in kashmir, lakshwadeep and Sikhs would feel safer.

This is perhaps your most compelling point. It's also cherrypicked however since radicalism and violence are coming from both the Hindu and Muslim sides. Picking one side over the other is just not what good government is about, this goes for Hindus obviously but also Muslims.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#149

Post by naruvimama » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

random314 wrote: post #147

naruvimama wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every muslim majority state is a facist state. India's diversity is safe as long as it is a Hindu state. I would like India to become a Hindu Rashta. With the creation of Pakistan, it is only fair for India to become a Hindu state. The history of Islam & Christianity clearly show the genocide that they have carried out across the world. We would like to preserve what we are. You are just being an Islamic apologist.

I like your confidence. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration?

If India is not declared a Hindu state, there is a good chance that it becomes an Islamic state.

Like Pakistan, one denomination will start killing another, it will become a hellhole, like much of west Asia.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#150

Post by some_joe » Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

naruvimama wrote: post #149

random314 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your confidence. Are you citing Islamic states as a form of what-aboutism or as a template for inspiration?

If India is not declared a Hindu state, there is a good chance that it becomes an Islamic state. Like Pakistan, one denomination will start killing another, it will become a hellhole, like much of west Asia.

The root issue is that there are entities that profit (mostly in retaining their relevance/power) when two group of people are pitched against one another. Because such entities can proclaim themselves to be the protectors of the group that is the majority from the other group that could be a minority group.

So you have to understand that once all Muslims are driven out, such entities will pitch two classes within Hindus itself. And in all probability, this could be what happening in places with Muslim majority.

So the real solution is not to drive a group of people away, or declare a "Hindu Rashtra" but to recognise such entities that are profiting from these conflicts, and render that tactic toothless. You will magically see the killings stop.