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The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

lawfareblog.com

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Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#141

Post by rini17 »

tptacek wrote: post #108
quanticle wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good point, but we might also end up with yet another layer of criminal organization: "dark exchanges" that allow victims of cybercrime to get cryptocurrency without interacting with the legal financial system. While I would rather that ransoms not be paid at all, if a ransom has to be paid, I'd much rather the company get their cash in a legitimate manner, interacting with financial entities that cooperate…

At some point, companies can just arrange for the transfer of suitcases full of cash. The point is that increasing the friction on these crimes reduces their incidence, and that's a point the author provides evidence for.

Consider there is a war on drugs which has repeatedly proven that "increasing the friction" might actually make the situation worse. Broadly criminalizing any and all exchange of money to unauthorized tokens (any more specific definition of a cryptocurrency will be subverted) is likely to end up in that territory.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#142

Post by tptacek »

rini17 wrote: post #141
tptacek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, companies can just arrange for the transfer of suitcases full of cash. The point is that increasing the friction on these crimes reduces their incidence, and that's a point the author provides evidence for.

Consider there is a war on drugs which has repeatedly proven that "increasing the friction" might actually make the situation worse. Broadly criminalizing any and all exchange of money to unauthorized tokens (any more specific definition of a cryptocurrency will be subverted) is likely to end up in that territory.

Seemed to work well for Viagra spam, and no violent black market for Viagra spam revenue clearing services sprung up.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#143

Post by Grim-444 »

hermes19 wrote: post #102
CincinnatiMan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument would be that the internet, while enabling bad things, is a net-positive with its good outweighing its bad. Whereas the value provided by cryptocurrencies is not as clear.

I live in a region where electronic cigarettes can't be purchased through the internet. Local shops can sell them, and do at a 100%-150% markup. fasttech.com will sell me products at msrp, but recently payment processors stopped allowing them to sell to me if my order contained electronic cigarette components (heaters, coils, resisters, batteries, etc). I was very pleased to discover they accept BTC and ETH as paymen…

You're comparing the benefits the internet provides to society with an example of being able to buy e-cigarettes slightly cheaper?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#144

Post by rini17 »

tptacek wrote: post #142
rini17 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider there is a war on drugs which has repeatedly proven that "increasing the friction" might actually make the situation worse. Broadly criminalizing any and all exchange of money to unauthorized tokens (any more specific definition of a cryptocurrency will be subverted) is likely to end up in that territory.

Seemed to work well for Viagra spam, and no violent black market for Viagra spam revenue clearing services sprung up.

Interesting, Viagra spam was mitigated by making these payments illegal? I have no idea, any source pls?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#145

Post by amluto »

quanticle wrote: post #76
tptacek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might say you're "banning Bitcoin", but what you're really doing is banning Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. That's a very tenable project.

I think it's more difficult than one imagines to ban Bitcoin's linkages to the existing institutional financial system. After all, it's not as if REvil or DarkSide are using Coinbase to trade their Bitcoin. If the United States shuts down all Bitcoin exchanges operating on its territory, but Russia does not, then does that have a meaningful impact on the usage of Bitcoin for cybercrime? It seems to me that all such a…

If FinCEN were to take the position that all exchange of Bitcoin to or from other currently were illegal, then there would be at least two major impacts:

1. US people or people in any country that respects FinCEN would have a hard time paying ransoms in Bitcoin, and

2. The value of Bitcoin paid for ransom would go down. What exactly is the criminal holding Bitcoin that is, by the very fact of being Bitcoin, dirty going to do with it? No matter how mixed and laundered it got, it would still be dirty.

At the end of the day, the result would be a lot like trying to extract ransom in the form of Rubles held in a Russian bank. I think this would strongly disrupt the business model.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#146

Post by tptacek »

rini17 wrote: post #144
tptacek wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemed to work well for Viagra spam, and no violent black market for Viagra spam revenue clearing services sprung up.

Interesting, Viagra spam was mitigated by making these payments illegal? I have no idea, any source pls?

See: the article we are commenting on.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#147

Post by tptacek »

JoeyBananas wrote: post #136
tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence at all that computer science and information technology actually knows how to solve the underlying security problems without forcing untenable compromises on the economy. We can produce secure software, but only at a level of expense and time that would preclude most commercial software development.

This is just a terrible argument. Often times, systems are compromised through social engineering so it's not even remotely possible to solve this issue by software engineering alone. But more importantly, think about the morality of what you are saying. It is absolutely not ethical to rob someone just because they are an easy target. I despise this sort of "technological nihilism." Just because something can be done…

I think you're reading a lot of stuff out of my comment that isn't there. I've spent most of my career doing software security, if that helps with context.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#148

Post by erichocean »

zlynx wrote: post #113

I believe the benefits of cryptocurrency outweigh problems. I like having options that can be anonymous, don't require banks, immune to government influence, and even completely outside any law. Because laws are not always moral and should be ignored and evaded. That's freedom. Having it is worth the significant amount of problems that come along with it.

> don't require banks, immune to government influence, and even completely outside any law

If any of those things were actually true we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Also, since you apparently do think that they are true, why are you at all concerned about what banks or governments or laws might mean for cryptocurrency? I thought cryptocurrencies were immune?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#149

Post by guilhas »

Bitcoin/cryptocurrency are an amazing technology breakthrough, and they will be the future, companies and govs will not accept anything less than self auditable immutable transactions. Resistance is futile

Regarding ransomeware, there is already criminal/scam wallet addresses tracking, so anyone cashing out from these addresses will eventually have to explain it

If it wasn't for payment it would be to destroy competition or disrupt enemy country infrastructure

Hard cash has also been paying criminals since ever and we still use it. If anything Bitcoin is a step up, due to being more traceable

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#150

Post by Dah00n »

grumple wrote: post #81
Dah00n wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run? Maybe destroying the petro dollar. One can dream.

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you opposed to people paying for oil, or the influence of oil? Because that still exists whether they are paying with dollars or crypto, and will exist no matter what currency is used.

No, I'm opposed to using a currency that is force-fed down the throat of oil producing countries at the the risk of invasion if refused.
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