Why we should end the data economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#141

Post by philosopher1234 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

virtue3 wrote: post #139

donatj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one sane would ever want all their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors I'd happily share basically all of that information with that specific group of people - except maybe my neighbor that keeps reporting me to the city, they don't need to know my life, but if in turn I could know who was googling city ordinances in the middle of the night it might make up for it. At worst I get a funny look for…

But how would you trust any company to properly respect who you share stuff with? There's a multitude of anti-patterns that make some things public already with social media. I think we should all be looking at this as either they're getting -all- of your data and sharing it with -everyone- (because that means more $$$) or they're NOT getting your data and they CANT share it cuz they don't have it. We cannot trust co…

turning a profit depends to some extent on our trust, so we can expect companies to do some good for us too

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#142

Post by unethical_ban » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

briffle wrote: post #108

whatever1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are getting free searches, email, messaging, photo storage etc

I would pay a fee to some sites to keep using their service, without tracking/advertising. But they don't offer it as an option.

There are open source map applications, paid email services (I use one), private-cloud office stacks like NextCloud.

You could, but you don't.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#143

Post by ianai » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

asiachick wrote: post #113

ianai wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense this would have been in the Bill of Rights had the notion been around back then. They knew the government needed to protect property rights as a fundamental principle and that is written throughout the legal code and constitution. So endowing citizens with ownership of the date of where they are, what they’re doing, and how they use sites seem like extensions of the personal property right. In a sane universe…

I doubt it. If you ask me "who lives next door" I'll tell you "Oh, the Smith's live next door, John, Jane, Jill, and Jacob. John's a blacksmith, Jane makes the best apple pie, Jill is studying to be a doctor and Jacob just turned 14" I doubt the forefathers would have thought there needed to be a law against me passing on info.

That actually makes it sound like unlawful search and seizure.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#144

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

whatever1 wrote: post #116

briffle wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would pay a fee to some sites to keep using their service, without tracking/advertising. But they don't offer it as an option.

There are paid options for example for email, but still people prefer the free options. Market has spoken. People just don't care about being tracked, specially if they get free goodies. As an anecdote: I am the only one in my extended family who does not use the car insurance tracker. Everyone is calling me out on why I dont get the "free" discount.

"People just don't care"

People are being massively lied to about what is veing tracked and what is being done with that info.

Or maybe these services are a monopoly, where they could start eating babies and not loose their audience anyway

The best is when a service is paid and it still traks you, like amazon

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#145

Post by choeger » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #140

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

Add to this... everything you said is a forever kept thing. So over decades this stuff can be mined and a tiny needle can be found if it's meaningful to the searcher. It's terrifying.

Add to this that no one cares about whether the data is even correct. A glitch in the location tracking and, bam, you have an affair. Some wrongly assigned search queries or speech requests and suddenly you are a pedophile. A terrorist selecting you as a cover identity and you wake up in Guantanamo.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#146

Post by Pet_Ant » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #119

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

> No one sane would ever want all their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors I'd happily share basically all of that information with that specific group of people - except maybe my neighbor that keeps reporting me to the city, they don't need to know my life, but if in turn I could know who was googling city ordinances in the middle of the night it might make up for it. At worst I get a funny look for…

> They've got legal and lethal authority to do far worse than a weird look.

Society scares me more. The government has the authority, but society has the power and the inclination to weaponise it. The government would never bother reacting to anything that RMS said but people did.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#147

Post by Black101 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

> how fast you drive, even if you don't have a smart car, because your phone contains an accelerometer

Any car 2010 and later "smart/stupid": https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1, so even if you leave your phone at home, don't assume that you aren't tracked.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#148

Post by alextheparrot » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #130

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

>your IQ based on the pages you "like" on Facebook and the friends you have That's got to be extremely noisy, does anyone have any links about this?

Paper has some flaws, but this is a good seed point.

https://www.pnas.org/content/110/15/5802?sid=98dc0a8b-4443-4...

IQ:

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/suppl/2013/03/07/121877211...

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#149

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

[deleted]

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#150

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

Impassionata wrote: post #18

anm89 wrote: post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

There's a way to achieve the stated goals: have the government come down real hard both on the low-level data crime and the big players that are supposedly legit. Burn it all down.

> Burn it all down

Easier said than done. What we're seeing is advertising as a business carried to its logical conclusion. If you "burn it all down", you have to end, in effect, all advertising. Advertisers try to target their budget as effectively as possible; the more they know about their target demographic, the better able they are to do that.