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Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

thebigtech.substack.com

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Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#141

Post by mrtksn »

prox wrote: post #134
mrtksn wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't ha…

Only 5 is really a legitimate reason, all the other things can be done on par with a website.

I think we need "Demand explanation" button for comments like this . It's a useless statement as is. It's essentially trolling and trolling shouldn't be happening on HN.

I know the reasoning of that statement but it's not providing an argument to refute. What am I supposed to say? "No. You can't, that's why it's not happening".

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#142

Post by prox »

mrtksn wrote: post #141
prox wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 5 is really a legitimate reason, all the other things can be done on par with a website.

I think we need "Demand explanation" button for comments like this . It's a useless statement as is. It's essentially trolling and trolling shouldn't be happening on HN. I know the reasoning of that statement but it's not providing an argument to refute. What am I supposed to say? "No. You can't, that's why it's not happening".

I do not see how you could read it as such. Because the reason / explanation is already given, as all the options that were mentioned (1-4) can be easily matched by any website, I think it is rather self evident.

1) You can add websites as app icons to iOS and Android. 2) Websites can hold persistent identities, and devices can otherwise remember the login details. 3) Websites UI can be anything and have nearly all options that apps can have, depending on the quality of the UX, which depends on the designer in any case. 4) A professional website will not be any slower if properly designed.

Now on 5, that depends on the specifics of the app. Some types do benefit greatly from being boarded on a device. An example would be Procreate for instance, which can not be mimicked on par in webform.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#143

Post by mrtksn »

prox wrote: post #142
mrtksn wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need "Demand explanation" button for comments like this . It's a useless statement as is. It's essentially trolling and trolling shouldn't be happening on HN. I know the reasoning of that statement but it's not providing an argument to refute. What am I supposed to say? "No. You can't, that's why it's not happening".

I do not see how you could read it as such. Because the reason / explanation is already given, as all the options that were mentioned (1-4) can be easily matched by any website, I think it is rather self evident. 1) You can add websites as app icons to iOS and Android. 2) Websites can hold persistent identities, and devices can otherwise remember the login details. 3) Websites UI can be anything and have nearly all o…

1) As I said, it's too involved. Only a fraction of your users would know how to do it, you will need to teach them.

2) Websites do that through Cookies and Local Storage. These have limits and users would be purging them en mass. The data of the app doesn't disappear for no reason.

3) As I said, the problem is that it runs within a browser if not added to the homescreen. It is a window within a window.

4) Professional or amateur design, websites data is managed by the browser and not you. Caches get invalidated, you download everything again. It happens all the time.

Just being able to do something is not enough, Apps are much smoother experience.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#144

Post by throayobviousl »

lodovic wrote: post #19

But Google still gets that info, just not Facebook. How is this not abuse of its market position?

Google absolutely needs to be sued for monopolistic practices. You literally _cannot_ share location data without Google getting it as well. This is beyond ridiculous.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#145

Post by MatmaRex »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #93
esrauch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's several reasons why everyone wants you to install the app, some of which aren't sketchy.

What are some of the none sketchy reasons for "everyone" wanting us to use their apps. Like for major companies, where the service is deliverable through a website, what benefits does the user get from an app? I can see why GPS based apps, or camera apps with filters, or networking apps 'need' to be installed apps (I don't know if an easy way to do GPS through a browser; speed and fast access to storage) ... but Amaz…

Most of the non-sketchy reasons are related to iOS Safari being crippled.

For example, I worked on a rich text editor, and we wanted to put a bar with text formatting tools above the touch keyboard. This is not possible in the browser: your webapp cannot measure the keyboard or the remaining available viewport (and the keyboard's size depends on the input method and the iPhone model).

Another example I experienced is when we wanted to have full-screen dialogs with buttons at the bottom. If you do that, then the users have to tap your buttons twice, because the first tap only expands Safari's browser UI, and your buttons near the bottom of the screen only work while that UI is expanded.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#146

Post by alsetmusic »

prepend wrote: post #66
esrauch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's several reasons why everyone wants you to install the app, some of which aren't sketchy.

I get pop ups from sites all the time asking me to try their site, every darn time I visit. Mai it stuff like Reddit, Imgur, most news sites. I’ve tried the apps and they’re worse. I’m not sure there’s any explanation other than more ad/data revenue. Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays? Even not accounting for privacy, the apps are generally just shittier with less functionality. I us…

> Are there apps that give superior experience than web sites nowadays?

The IMDB app is far better (to me) than the dumpster-fire that has become their website. Other than that, I agree with the sentiment that most apps for websites are not worthwhile to install.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#147

Post by fooey »

hakfoo wrote: post #139
motoboi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe VR and mainly AR are the next and natural step in personal computing. Ubiquitous computing may be the next step from there. Something like “the world is the computer and you just interact with it”.

It feels like VR is 5 years away forever. Realistically, I feel like there are two near-intractible problems for widescale consumer adoption. 1. The space problem. For some experiences, yeah, you can sit in a chair and wear a helmet, but I'd expect many of the more compelling immersive experiences would involve flailing your arms and moving around. That's a recipe for disaster inside a small apartment without dedicat…

VR also requires 100% task dedication

You can't alt-tab over to HN to browse during loading screens

Even assuming everyone had the hardware, the barrier to use is magnitudes larger than using a mobile device

Personally, I think VR has already plateaued

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#148

Post by fsflover »

speeder wrote: post #5

Whenever I read articles like this, I get more and more horrified. I mean, I know that adtech spy on us a lot, but I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible. Makes me very wary even of dumbphones, for example I bought a dumbphone recently, and yet it came with Facebook and Google Assistant both pre-installed.

> Whenever I read articles like this, I get more and more horrified.

> Makes me very wary even of dumbphones

If you care about it, consider GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone, which run FLOSS and have hardware kill switches for microphone and other things.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#149

Post by alsetmusic »

greeklish wrote: post #127
Leherenn wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Chrome and Safari have the "add to home screen", but Safari doesn't have push notifications, not even for "installed" webapp.

I remember the time when news were flooding the internet evangelizing iphones as the platform of the web, a platform that would allow websites do anything a native application could. What a letdown...

> I remember the time when news were flooding the internet evangelizing iphones as the platform of the web, a platform that would allow websites do anything a native application could.

> What a letdown...

The original iPhone demo showed the actual desktop version of the NYT website loading in Safari. Websites were the ones that later optimized for mobile.

And I don’t remember iPhones being promoted as giving websites anything approaching native app capabilities except when Apple tried to sell that line to developers before they had a public SDK. Nobody bought it, even then.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#150

Post by drusepth »

burnished wrote: post #120
esrauch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's several reasons why everyone wants you to install the app, some of which aren't sketchy.

I have an app for most sites, its called my browser. If the app isn't taking advantage of a feature on my phone then it doesn't make sense to package it as an app.. unless they are getting something out of it. Going to make a broad and sweeping generalization here: they are getting money from tracking.

Counterthought: I've been running a popular web-only site for about 5 years now and I get a little under a hundred requests per month for it to be made "into an app". A lot of users just want to be able "to install it" or to "get to it from my home screen" or "to get to it faster" (even after pointing out they can add bookmarks to home screens). It's also tempting from my POV to make an app just for discoverability reasons (e.g. users browsing the app store discovering my site).

I haven't made an app (don't know how!) and I definitely wouldn't add a "download our app or else!" banner/wall, but I've been extremely surprised from the other side of the table to see just how many users seemingly just want an app for an app's sake, even if it's functionally no different from a responsive mobile view.

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