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“Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

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Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#141
So my understanding of the situation (not an insider, just following the drama):

1. Way back when, Freenode was started by Rob Levin/Lilo. At some stage a legal entity needed to exist, which was Open Projects Network initially.

2. After some drama about misappropriation of funds, Freenode staff seperated themselves (all involved then having moved on by the time of the current drama) from OPN. [1]

3. Still realising the need for a legal entity, they formed PDPC . This had a structure and eventually christel was the leader of said structure.

4. Many years pass

5. The decision is made that PDPC is not providing enough value, when the cost of maintaining the non-profit is Freenode's primary expense. So it's dissolved[2][3]. At this stage, Freenode ceases to exist as a legal entity, but the network still exists. The domains etc. were likely under the personal control of christel at this point.

6. Many more years pass.

7. Due to reasons not definitively answered as christel has made no statements to this point, PIA steps in. They set up freenode ltd as a legal body for this. freenode ltd acquire freenode from christel as part of this, but what's publicly communicated[4] is that it's a partnership, and later downplayed to a sponsorship, including in public by christel[5]. This appears to have been what the staff was informed also. christel also becomes a PIA or LTM employee.

8. A few more years pass. During this time, PIA seperates from LTM via the Kape acquisition [6]. It's LTM which keeps the freenode stake, and Shells is the new LTM company that is the public facing sponsor.

9. Christel puts up a Shells sponsorship on the homepage which is unknown to the rest of the team as to why. When questioned, she leaves. Andrew Lee portrays this questioning as harassment, the libera.chat team portray it as asking "Hey, why is this sponsor there?"

10. Christel resigns. The staff, figuring that Freenode is still a volunteer run group, appoint a new leader, tomaw, who begins taking control and limiting access to Freenode resources to the staff.

11. Andrew Lee claims to own Freenode. After some legal back and forth between tomaw and Andrew Lee, the libera.chat team accept that Christel sold what she owned to Andrew Lee legally, though what she owned is unclear due to the dissolution of PDPC years prior.

12. The staff and Andrew Lee try to negotiate. The staff point out that Freenode is a volunteer run network running on volunteer provided servers, none of which are owned by a freenode entity, and also that it breaks previous public statements and promises to assert control. Andrew Lee points out he is the legal owner and it is inappropriate to remove his access.

13. The staff split off to form libera.chat

So, the points of conflict:

1. Both sides at this point accept that christel sold what she legally owned to Andrew Lee. What did she legally own to sell? The domain and the website for sure, but what is Freenode? The IRC servers are provided on a volunteer basis by server owners with no commitment, the channels are "owned" by the communities in them. So what does it mean to own Freenode?

2. Was Christel in the right to sell things to Andrew Lee? Again, legally, the answer appears to be yes - without PDPC, she did own the assets personally, so could sell them, but morally she was the owner because she was representing the freenode volunteers and in this she didn't appear to have their participation, knowledge, or agreement.

3. Should freenode have a corporate owner? The idea is that it's a volunteer run group, so it feels weird to have a corporate owner. This is a big point of confusion for people who are going "So the owner took control, I don't see why there's a problem here". The issue was there should never have been an individual owner, but because of the costs involved in PDPC and its shutdown, there effectively was. The legal structure became divorced from the community structure at this point. This is considered to be a "So what?" by some people, while it's inherently a problem for others.

[1]: https://www.theregister.com/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403441

[3]: https://freenode.net/news/bye-bye-pdpc

[4]: https://freenode.net/news/pia-fn

[5]: https://freenode.net/news/freenode-pia-changes

[6]: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ng5pzj/freenode_now_...

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#142
post #122

Besides discussing what happened, I wonder what IS going to happen. Right now every staffer introduced by rasengan isn't known by much, seems to be very new to freenode (and even at some times, struggling with managing the services). Some of the new staffers seems to be previous operators of Rizon[1], also known as the 4chan of IRC, which is a dubious move. One of them also seems to have been fired from it[2]. On "Fr…

There's the further detail of Handshake, which Lee appears to be deeply involved in, which is a cryptocurrency that in essence claims the DNS roots as its own (part of the marketing strategy of Handshake appears to have been some sort of "airdrop" --- I'm not a cryptocurrency person and may be using that term wrong --- of coins to open source projects; I don't know if that's connected to the FOSS donations Lee keeps…

None of the donations Handshake made (136m) are being claimed as donations I made.

The millions I have donated I did both personally and thru a wholly owned company.

As I said before, attacking donations is sending a chilling effect in the FOSS community and to sponsors.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#144
post #122

Besides discussing what happened, I wonder what IS going to happen. Right now every staffer introduced by rasengan isn't known by much, seems to be very new to freenode (and even at some times, struggling with managing the services). Some of the new staffers seems to be previous operators of Rizon[1], also known as the 4chan of IRC, which is a dubious move. One of them also seems to have been fired from it[2]. On "Fr…

Probably would not be wise to guess or speculate and instead go by what I have actually said. The issue with services was because the previous team pulled our mail server and all its contents. We had to abruptly get everything in place. As for the decentralizing - that’s what I’m into and the way to do it on irc is by ending reliance on a central domain name for the connection. It’s not decided yet but is something I…

Then explain your motives more clearly. Freenode used to be managed by a college of trusted people, and now?

The issues with services I speak about wasn't related at all to mail either.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof. Confidentiality, NDA's, and other business tools like it are at complete odds with open source, free software, transparency, and honesty. It's comments like this that cement the idea of getting off of Freenode to Libera.chat is the best thing we could do.

To say business tools and confidentiality are at odds with open source is comical at best. Some of us work on FOSS as a career. We still have to sign NDAs with customers, we still upstream patches to core components. Throwing your toys out of the ring because business is business is why open source has a funding problem.

The way you choose to handle business doesn’t invalidate what he said, and you shouldn’t take that as a dig.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#146
post #122

Besides discussing what happened, I wonder what IS going to happen. Right now every staffer introduced by rasengan isn't known by much, seems to be very new to freenode (and even at some times, struggling with managing the services). Some of the new staffers seems to be previous operators of Rizon[1], also known as the 4chan of IRC, which is a dubious move. One of them also seems to have been fired from it[2]. On "Fr…

There's the further detail of Handshake, which Lee appears to be deeply involved in, which is a cryptocurrency that in essence claims the DNS roots as its own (part of the marketing strategy of Handshake appears to have been some sort of "airdrop" --- I'm not a cryptocurrency person and may be using that term wrong --- of coins to open source projects; I don't know if that's connected to the FOSS donations Lee keeps…

The usage of that term is correct. It's interchangeable with "giveaway".

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#147
No idea what this is going to change. Maybe this is an attempt to monitor and index all conversations since it's difficult to do with decentralized IRC servers?

With all data gathering practices, you can bet some people see an opportunity to make money with any human data.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the further detail of Handshake, which Lee appears to be deeply involved in, which is a cryptocurrency that in essence claims the DNS roots as its own (part of the marketing strategy of Handshake appears to have been some sort of "airdrop" --- I'm not a cryptocurrency person and may be using that term wrong --- of coins to open source projects; I don't know if that's connected to the FOSS donations Lee keeps…

None of the donations Handshake made (136m) are being claimed as donations I made. The millions I have donated I did both personally and thru a wholly owned company. As I said before, attacking donations is sending a chilling effect in the FOSS community and to sponsors.

I daresay your patronizing tone is hardly helping your case.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the further detail of Handshake, which Lee appears to be deeply involved in, which is a cryptocurrency that in essence claims the DNS roots as its own (part of the marketing strategy of Handshake appears to have been some sort of "airdrop" --- I'm not a cryptocurrency person and may be using that term wrong --- of coins to open source projects; I don't know if that's connected to the FOSS donations Lee keeps…

None of the donations Handshake made (136m) are being claimed as donations I made. The millions I have donated I did both personally and thru a wholly owned company. As I said before, attacking donations is sending a chilling effect in the FOSS community and to sponsors.

You mention you've donated millions. Presumably this is distributed across multiple projects. How much has freenode received from you?

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#150
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably would not be wise to guess or speculate and instead go by what I have actually said. The issue with services was because the previous team pulled our mail server and all its contents. We had to abruptly get everything in place. As for the decentralizing - that’s what I’m into and the way to do it on irc is by ending reliance on a central domain name for the connection. It’s not decided yet but is something I…

Then explain your motives more clearly. Freenode used to be managed by a college of trusted people, and now? The issues with services I speak about wasn't related at all to mail either.

Freenode was staffed by volunteers but it was never managed by them.

They were recruited by management.

Let’s not rewrite history any further, please.

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