Be in a field where tech is the limit • Hacker News Board

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#141

Post by marmot777 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

this-pony wrote: post #94

Aeolun wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the plus side, the average level of engineers in Europe seems to be fairly high. On the negaive side, yeah, all the truly high talented people will leave because the salaries in Europe can be so laughably low. Trying to figure out how to move back to my home country now, but short of director level positions, there’s just nothing with a comparable salary range.

I would argue against the statement that all 'truly high talented people' (whatever that may mean) will leave Europe because the salaries are too low. At least in Academia I know plenty of smart people happily working away in Europe. I suppose it may well be different outside of academia, but not every (smart/talented) person in the world has a high salary as their #1 priority. To me, and to many of my friends/acquai…

One of my best friends is a CS prof in Sweden and loves it there and he finds the academic culture less stressful and cut throat than here.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#142

Post by Frost1x » Sat, May 08, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #137

GuB-42 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to let you know. I am a French developer, making around ~45k€. While I won't pretend to be "truly high talented", I am convinced that by moving to the US and I could double that. But... I don't want to. I live in Southern France, which is a nice place (with good food). I have enough money to do almost whatever I want and have savings. I have 7 to 8 weeks/year of paid leave, which I can use pretty much when I wan…

It's not black and white. I'm working remotely in New Zealand making more than 45k euros with 1 YOE and my company seems to care a lot about W/L balance. I'm sure there are also office-based US companies with good pay and W/L balance.

>I'm sure there are also office-based US companies with good pay and W/L balance.

They are increasingly difficult to find.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#143

Post by mikewarot » Sat, May 08, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

Software is still at the 4 elements stage of learning (Earth, Wind, Fire, Water).

We have capability based security as a model for having computers that don't get taken out by any flaw anywhere, but... like doctors who refused to believe that washing hands helped save lives, most programmers don't believe in it, or have never heard of it.

Computers used to be leading edge because anyone could just get a machine and start hacking away at it, with physical hardware being the only limit. Now our operating environments are about as secure as a forest during high fire season... only little spark, and poof... your house is gone.

We're about 10 years out, not because of a lack of ideas, but because of a lack of adoption of technology that works, instead of the old stuff extended way too far on a bad local maxima.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#144

Post by datameta » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #125

GuB-42 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to let you know. I am a French developer, making around ~45k€. While I won't pretend to be "truly high talented", I am convinced that by moving to the US and I could double that. But... I don't want to. I live in Southern France, which is a nice place (with good food). I have enough money to do almost whatever I want and have savings. I have 7 to 8 weeks/year of paid leave, which I can use pretty much when I wan…

Not double, easy 10x for a decent senior engineer at a top 10 software company. I am sure you are making the best trade off and respect that, but use the real values. Double is for a fresh grad in top US markets.

108k for a fresh grad? That's just not accurate.

The Greater NYC area will net an entry level dev 60-75k max in most cases. 108k is much closer to the average, taking into account highly experienced outliers.

National average of entry level dev salaries for reference: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Software-D...

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#145

Post by fnord77 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #125

GuB-42 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to let you know. I am a French developer, making around ~45k€. While I won't pretend to be "truly high talented", I am convinced that by moving to the US and I could double that. But... I don't want to. I live in Southern France, which is a nice place (with good food). I have enough money to do almost whatever I want and have savings. I have 7 to 8 weeks/year of paid leave, which I can use pretty much when I wan…

Not double, easy 10x for a decent senior engineer at a top 10 software company. I am sure you are making the best trade off and respect that, but use the real values. Double is for a fresh grad in top US markets.

my shop is paying $125k for undergrad CS/computer engineering just out of school

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#146

Post by Frost1x » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:16 AM UTC

tobr wrote: post #22

I’m not convinced by this - “Innovation happens in fields where our ideas are limited by our means to pursue them” - but it’s written as if it’s self-evident. Why would it be like this and what is the argument that it is? By what measure is computing stagnant today compared to the 60’s, for example?

I think it's almost a tautology: Innovation happens where... innovation needs to happen.

Which I think is fair. Innovation does also occur where it doesn't necessarily need to.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#147

Post by the_only_law » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

amackera wrote: post #45

guhcampos wrote: post #42

Wife is a PhD Animal Geneticist, but works as government inspector on slaughterhouses. Makes 3-4 times the money her research colleagues do. I'm not even sure what to think of it, honestly.

In every way I think about it, this difference in salary seems justified. I can't imagine inspecting slaughterhouses is very fun or rewarding, but it's super important for society.

> I can't imagine inspecting slaughterhouses is very fun or rewarding, but it's super important for society.

But I can think of all sorts of jobs that are more important to society than working on some random doomed-to-fail SaaS that won't pay remotely near that.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#148

Post by the_only_law » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:22 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #29

I've always loved science. I wish I could switch to biotech, but that would mean basically starting over.

I'm beginning the process of starting over, not in biotech, but a different scientific/engineering field. I will inevitably earn less than I could in the long run, but from my early research it likely won't be too bad. Worst case I figure I can manage to run back to software.

The caveat ofc, is that I'm still young with no ties.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#149

Post by cellis » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:22 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #79

Judgmentality wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except perhaps finance it pays far, far better. I hear this a lot, but I've never seen it. I know plenty of people in tech making the better part of $1 MM a year at FAANG, and a few who even breach that. Most people I know in finance never break $500k. So how much do people make in finance?

Pre 2008 a lot of people were retiring in 4 years. Things have changed (smaller parties) but people are still getting rich. The top tier are crushing faang salaries. A million a year is a lot but more can be available when you are trading.

The top tier in finance are NOT crushing the top tier in tech. No way. All these IPOS + Faang are making 10s of thousands of millionaire mid-level engineers, thousands of decamillionaire VPs and angels, and dozens of billionaires, year after year.

Re: Be in a field where tech is the limit

#150

Post by the_only_law » Sat, May 08, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #66

> Innovation happens in fields where our ideas are limited by our means to pursue them. Software is no longer such a field, our brightest minds should be going elsewhere. I feel like the author has an overly one-dimensional definition of both innovation and what it means for someone to be one of "our brightest minds". There are two different goods and two different talents at play here. The first is taking an idea th…

I've always imagine software is so successful as well, because of comparatively low capital costs needed to make something useful.