Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

fda.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 273 posts

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#141

Post by tharne »

ralusek wrote: post #38
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Harm reduction? Why not ban alcohol? Why not cap cars at 55mph? People have lost money in the stock market, so I assume you'd like that banned as well. What is your limiting principle?

I don't understand all the downvotes to this. Any harm reduction initiative is by nature paternalistic and somewhat arbitrary.

In most societies, a "vice" is a just a habit that the upper middle class disapproves of. In the 1950's, the upper middle class enjoyed smoking cigarettes so that was fine and dandy, but marijuana was the devil. Today, the upper middle class loves marijuana and finds cigarettes distasteful, so we have smoking bans alongside marijuana legalization.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#142

Post by rad_gruchalski »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #62
LargeWu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a more accurate way of framing it is "Menthols have been targeted specifically to black people, and also, they're even more harmful than regular cigarettes". It's definitely not "let's take this away because black people like it".

How are menthol cigarettes more harmful than regular ones? The menthol just makes it easier to smoke more. Is that the crux of your argument? I find the “company X is targeting [arbitrary subcategory]” argument to be totally asinine btw. Is Krispy Kreme targeting fat people by offering free donuts for people that get COVID-19 vaccines? Lastly there is nothing more patronizing than telling a black person that you’re p…

> How are menthol cigarettes more harmful than regular ones? The menthol just makes it easier to smoke more. Is that the crux of your argument?

It gives more pleasure so it hooks you on more. So yes, it’s more harmful, no? When I was smoking cigarettes back in the day, my fav was West Ice. They tasted really good and didn’t have bad aftertaste. It was easier to smoke more and smoke one only for the menthol taste.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#143

Post by jolux »

nicoburns wrote: post #105
jolux wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine is potentially harmful in a few ways but mostly it's the constituents of tobacco smoke, particularly nitrosamines: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20121116-can-we-ever-have... .

> Nicotine is potentially harmful in a few ways Not least of which is it's incredibly addictive. Meaning that tobacco smokers often smoke a lot .

True, but of itself that's not necessarily a health problem. I was talking about the limited evidence that it can harden your arterial walls and such.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#144

Post by heavyset_go »

nprz wrote: post #72
veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

Some how the democratic party is in favor of prohibiting the use of menthol cigarettes, but they're also in favor of legalizing marijuana? Very weird.

> but they're also in favor of legalizing marijuana? Very weird.

In every state that it's been legalized in, weed is heavily regulated. Weed must be tested for adulterants, heavy metals and mold contamination before it is sold. Some states even regulate the amount of active compounds that are present in the marijuana.

In the states I'm familiar with, it's also illegal to package, market or sell marijuana in manners that might entice children to use it. Sometimes that means banning THC laden candies or vapes that children can recognize, and banning the use of colorful advertising or cartoons, as well.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#145

Post by elil17 »

veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

Unlike other drugs, it is legal to grow your own tobacco in the US - even if you’re too young to buy it. They’re restricting what big corporations can sell, not what individual people can do. There’s nothing in this change stopping anyone from buying loose tobacco, adding their own flavor, and rolling cigarettes with it.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#146

Post by __blockcipher__ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #132
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the problem with socialized medicine. Once you institute it now your body belongs to the state. You’re not allowed to put something deemed bad in your body because the “people” have to pay for it. Prohibition is wrong. It’s not just unethical but impractical. And congrats, now cops aren’t just going to claim they smell weed in my car, they’re going to claim they smell menthol too. — Also your “waive your right…

Perhaps there should be a way to opt out of taxpayer subsidized healthcare if you smoke, eat excess sugar/carbs, drink alcohol, smoke crack, etc.

Once you go down this road you end up with social credit scores. First it’s the obvious stuff like tobacco, then not exercising enough, then not sleeping enough, and eventually you reach the paradox that free will is a lie anyway and there’s no functional difference between insomnia and “choosing” to eat a donut

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#147

Post by MarkSweep »

dcolkitt wrote: post #44
benjohnson wrote: post #5

Frankly this seems paternalistic. It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: "We found something non-white people enjoy and we're going to ruin it. For their own good."

I’d like to imagine an alternative universe where the federal government bans wood burning fireplaces. After all fireplaces produce an enormous quantity of indoor air pollution, and sitting by a fire for the night is about the equivalent of smoking a pack of cigarettes. How would this policy proposal be received? My guess is that the public would be up in arms and decry the move as ridiculous government over reach. T…

Well, at least in the SF Bay Area, you are not allowed to install a new wood burning fireplace. And you are not allowed to operate one on “spare the air” says, unless it is your only source of heat.

https://www.baaqmd.gov/rules-and-compliance/wood-smoke

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#148

Post by nicoburns »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #90
techrat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting dangerously close to the whole "social credit" style of cost burden. Slippery slope, bud. Now what? Your healthcare costs should go up because you like your eggs fried and with salt instead of hard boiled?

I mean things probably will go that way as tracking of individual behaviors gets easier right? For example, I believe some healthcare providers will give free fitbits to users (I think the State of Nevada does) to get them to exercise more, so not a direct fee but they are incentivizing a certain behavior. Then you've got all the car insurers now that are looking at more details of your driving above and beyond the s…

I seriously hope not. It completely defeats the purpose of insurance, which is to spread risk.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#149

Post by atlasunshrugged »

whatshisface wrote: post #92
filoleg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed with your premise in full. Increasing the price isn't necessarily about making it inaccessible to people so they stop smoking (though it is a minor part of it that is a nice side-effect), it is to make sure that the additional burden placed on the healthcare system by those people is balanced out by taxes paid in form of increased prices on tobacco products. If people don't stop smoking, then might as well mak…

> it is to make sure that the additional burden placed on the healthcare system by those people is balanced out by taxes paid in form of increased prices on tobacco products. That only makes sense in places where the taxes go to healthcare organizations. In the American system, that doesn't happen - there's no way that a city will hand the proceeds of its tobacco taxes to insurance companies.

Yeah, the point isn't to compensate insurers - they for sure get theirs and charge smokers more. It's to compensate healthcare systems and governments who foot the bill for 1) productivity decreases from smoking in the form of more sick days, more breaks, etc. and 2) people who don't have insurance and get cancer and are treated at the taxpayers expense

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#150

Post by jolux »

gburdell3 wrote: post #98
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

Flavors aren't effective at hooking young people, nicotine is. Nobody smokes because it tastes good, menthol or not. This is just another ban that makes some people feel good about themselves while pissing off the rest. I lean pretty far left, but this is the kind of meaningless ban that makes people hate Democrats.

>Nobody smokes because it tastes good, menthol or not.

I was just talking with some online friends yesterday who smoke and say they would never have started if it weren't for menthols, so I think you're wrong about this.

Post reply on HN