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10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

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Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#141

Post by wisty »

raffi wrote: post #62

I'm a computer scientist, not a web monkey (FOOTNOTE). I'd say these are not the things all CS students should do before graduating. The field has much more to it. How about: 1) add or modify a significant feature of a working kernel 2) write a toy programming language 3) program in a programming language with concurrent constructs (e.g., erlang) 4) study some theoretical area, develop a practical application based o…

Surely these are already in the course. Unless the course is bogged up with useless crap like OOP, COCOMO, XML, SQL, and so on.

There is a case for CS courses to be nothing but algorithms and compilers; but that's not the way they work in the real world.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#142

Post by rubergly »

wisty wrote: post #141
raffi wrote: post #62

I'm a computer scientist, not a web monkey (FOOTNOTE). I'd say these are not the things all CS students should do before graduating. The field has much more to it. How about: 1) add or modify a significant feature of a working kernel 2) write a toy programming language 3) program in a programming language with concurrent constructs (e.g., erlang) 4) study some theoretical area, develop a practical application based o…

Surely these are already in the course. Unless the course is bogged up with useless crap like OOP, COCOMO, XML, SQL, and so on. There is a case for CS courses to be nothing but algorithms and compilers; but that's not the way they work in the real world.

I go to a small liberal arts college, so our CS department is rather lacking in course breadth (although that is made up in 1-1 interaction), and so I haven't been privileged with being able to take classes on web technologies. Are you saying that all courses on things that aren't web-based are bogged down with useless crap?

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#143

Post by JacobIrwin »

vbtemp wrote: post #64
dendory wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's not a bad comment about how an actual College CS program may not have anything to do with the real world. I run my own servers, I code my sites from scratch in HTML, JavaScript, PHP, SQL etc.. build all my computers.. made several open source contribution coding in C.. I can do everything in that list and much more.. Yet when I applied to a local University in a CS program a couple years ago I was den…

That just isn't true. CS isn't about "running servers, coding sites in HTML, JavaScript, PHP, etc.." Computer Science is about (per your example): 1. developing the programming paradigms underlying javascript 2. creating SQL (i.e., defining the grammar, but also proving it's correctness and completeness) 3. Architecting the network protocols that provide HTTP and HTML their plush delivery ---3.1, Naturally, is involv…

And for those reasons 'vbtemp' I fully intend to apply once my pre-reqs are fulfilled.

My plan is to double major: Finance+CS.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#144

Post by Game_Ender »

rubergly wrote: post #142
wisty wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely these are already in the course. Unless the course is bogged up with useless crap like OOP, COCOMO, XML, SQL, and so on. There is a case for CS courses to be nothing but algorithms and compilers; but that's not the way they work in the real world.

I go to a small liberal arts college, so our CS department is rather lacking in course breadth (although that is made up in 1-1 interaction), and so I haven't been privileged with being able to take classes on web technologies. Are you saying that all courses on things that aren't web-based are bogged down with useless crap?

He is actually saying the opposite. He is saying that your CS department is doing you a disservice if it hasn't covered the basics listed by the original poster (OS hacking, theory, making a toy language, etc.). My schooling covered all of that, and they even had a web development elective (separate from low level networking and database classes). I was also told by my professors that when the CS college first started, OS, compiler, networking and database classes were mandatory (now they are just part of a large pool of electives), so this is pretty standard stuff.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#145

Post by Apocryphon »

jleader wrote: post #138
Apocryphon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're always going to have this issue, because IT and sysadmin will always be scoffed as something for vocational schools, dismissed by "real universities of pure knowledge and research." Major universities will never condescend to offer such programs. And perhaps they shouldn't. But at the same time, vocational schools are still seen as having less prestige (and, thus leading to careers making less money) in the U.S…

"vocational schools are still seen as having less prestige..." Except for a few vocations that have managed to get themselves tagged as "professions". There are a number of fields where students are supposedly taught to think in general-purpose undergraduate programs, and then taught the minutia of their chosen field in "professional school". e.g. law school, medical school, and a growing list of professional doctora…

Why shouldn't sysadmin or network engineering be turned into some sort of engineering major? What makes EE or Computer Engineering more deserving of the ivory tower than them?

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#146

Post by arethuza »

notJim wrote: post #129
GrooveStomp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be wary of confusing the idea of pursuing an education with that of getting a job. There's a correlation between the two, for sure, but they're not the same thing. I think universities themselves have been pushing this correlation, but I don't think it's necessarily the right idea to push. raffi's point is a very good one. If you're a computer scientist, then study computer science. If you're a professional p…

Isn't the distinction kind of academic? Most people study computer science with the goal of getting a job as a professional programmer.

I don't think it is academic at all - CS is pretty much irrelevant to most programming jobs in the same way that theoretical physics is irrelevant to a plumber or electrician (both very skilled jobs) - it's not that the subject is inapplicable, it's just not very useful.

Note that I did a CS degree and have been lucky to have jobs that built upon that foundation (in order: research, start-ups, industry) - if you want to do fundamentally technically difficult stuff then a CS or engineering degree may help, but that is the exception not the rule.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#148

Post by flexd »

I think there are about two things on that list I haven't done, besides not having started CS/Comp. Engineering yet.

It might just be me but shouldn't just a whole bunch of debugging, technical know-how and actually having a strong interest in technology also be important? I know many CS students that besides gaming are not really interested in nerdy technical things and I know there are a lot of people starting CS (at least here in my country) that have never really used a computer for anything other than internet surfing and word processing.

It's not like you become a good programmer or computer person over night just by taking a three year long CS bachelor.

Somebody who is already committed to learning more things on their spare time and already has an interest in these things before starting school will always come out of the situation/bachelor better. Don't you think so?

I would also have included a bit of electrical engineering knowledge (like soldering, electrical circuits and things like that) because just because you are a CS student and work in software it shouldn't mean you should know nothing of the systems and technology you use.

Re: 10000 things all CS students should do before graduating

#149

Post by joezydeco »

Learn to install and reinstall Windows. Not just Vista or 7, but XP as well. Learn how to add/remove/troubleshoot device drivers without killing yourself. Connect to a local server, get networking set up, get wifi working.

Because someone, somewhere, shortly after you graduate, will ask you to do this. You might even have to do it for yourself at your first job.

[EDIT] You can downvote me, but any fellow CS grad that makes it to a business environment will encounter some coworker that will want help with their machine, and I guarantee it will be running some version of Windows. Trust me on this one.

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