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Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#141

Post by youngtaff »

akie wrote: post #46
hyko wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, $20 a shot vs $3 a shot buys a lot of influence. Still, it’s good that someone stepped up the the plate, otherwise most people on earth would remain unvaccinated.

What would also help is if the UK and the US would export vaccine to other countries, like the rest of the world does. Sharing is caring? EDIT: https://www.statista.com/chart/24555/vaccine-doses-produced-...

Looking at exported vaccine doses is a blunt measure

The lipids used in Pfizer's come from UK, Moderna exported vaccines from EU are actually brewed in Switzerland and finished in Spain for export

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#142

Post by sdeframond »

Does anyone know how many doses of other, presumably safer, vaccines Danemark has?

Perhaps they have the luxury to choose which jab to use, in which case it seems logical to prefer the safer one. TFA mentions that the decision would delay vaccine rollout by 4 weeks.

What is the impact of that delay?

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#143

Post by ceejayoz »

peytn wrote: post #130
lukasLansky wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a narrative that misses the point of the thread and is generally not compatible with hard data. For example, the amount of suicides in US during 2020 went down .

Parent was talking about missed cancers and drug abuse, not suicides. Alcohol sales were up ~20% [1]—that too is hard data. [1]: https://wineindustryadvisor.com/2020/11/16/nielsen-covid-bev...

Off-premises alcohol sales were up; the article indicates it's a shift from on-premises to off-premises, which... shouldn't be surprising, given a lot of those premises are shut.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#144

Post by bobcostas55 »

jsnell wrote: post #68

There's a very special kind of arrogance going on in all the comment threads about the Covid vaccine suspensions. These decisions are being made by professionals. They have been trained to do exactly this kind of decision. They have access to the best possible data on both the risks of the vaccine, the risks of Covid in their local context, and the impact these decisions have on the national vaccination schedules. Bu…

Surely you must have observed a few bad decisions made by these professionals over the last year? Enough, perhaps, to doubt that they are actually selected for competence, to doubt that their goals align with those of society?

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#145

Post by FlyingAvatar »

londons_explore wrote: post #53

This decision seems illogical to many commenters here, but I assume the decision was made by professionals with all the data in front of them. Which then raises the question, why did these professionals make a decision so different than the "obvious" opinion here?

To me the problem with these kind of blanket decisions is:

(a) The reasoning is often either not communicated, or is poorly communicated.

(b) It takes away a risk/benefit decision from people that are mostly capable of making on their own. Don't want to take the risk of a rare side effect? Wait for an mRNA vaccine. Think the risk of COVID for your particular scenario is higher? Let me accept the risk.

There isn't a way that a single model of the scenario produces the 'correct' or 'safest' decision for everyone. Also, there is no good reason that a person of sound reasoning cannot make this decision for themselves.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#146

Post by caddemon »

Ensorceled wrote: post #17

I do not understand the math going on here and in multiple countries: a very rare side effect that we can't even clearly attribute to the AZ vaccine, and now the J&J vaccine, VS the clear and present danger of a deadly pandemic: COVID and emerging, more lethal variants.

For AZ the evidence is pretty strong the clots are a real side effect. It is indeed rare, but it mostly effects young people, who are extremely unlikely to die from COVID. I don't understand discontinuing entirely, but given the vaccine alternatives available I think it makes perfect sense to direct young people elsewhere.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#147

Post by Tenoke »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #134
Tenoke wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professionals make wrong decisions all the time, often because the wrong professionals are the ones making them. Are people already forgetting how masks were actively disrecommended by 'professionals' at the start of the pandemic while plenty here and in other places were similarly saying that masks are obviously good?

You must have listened to the wrong "experts" then. There was a bit of an initial, politically influenced confusion in the US at the beginning up until about June. However, where I live all experts recommended wearing masks from the start. They did say that people should not rush to buy FFP2 masks and chirurgical masks at a time when there was a shortage of those for health professionals, which was definitely the rig…

>There was a bit of an initial, politically influenced confusion in the US at the beginning up until about June

You are downplaying it - they were actively taking a stance against them in the US and June was already quite late into the pandemic.

The WHO themselves were advising people NOT to wear a mask and that it might be even more dangerous to wear one than not to wear it months into the pandemic.. They also only revised this in June.

https://twitter.com/whowpro/status/1243171683067777024

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#148

Post by usrusr »

zpeti wrote: post #77
eloff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's exactly it. There is a tradeoff to be made here with likely deaths on both sides, and the government is choosing much higher numbers of deaths because it looks better for them politically. That's immoral and cowardly. I don't see any way to justify the decision they've made logically.

This pandemic is basically this entire story. COVID deaths are much more visible than the missed cancers, the depression and drug abuse caused by lockdowns, so basically it’s an easy choice for governments, lockdowns are better politically.

But people will also miss cancer screenings, get depressed and so on when they stay at home because of an unmitigated pandemic running wild. It wouldn't be 2019 again without government intervention.

(PS: also, why would they miss a cancer screening when it's literally the only pastime that isn't shut down?)

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#149

Post by AzzieElbab »

lukasLansky wrote: post #118
zpeti wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pandemic is basically this entire story. COVID deaths are much more visible than the missed cancers, the depression and drug abuse caused by lockdowns, so basically it’s an easy choice for governments, lockdowns are better politically.

That is a narrative that misses the point of the thread and is generally not compatible with hard data. For example, the amount of suicides in US during 2020 went down .

And the number of deaths due to seasonal flues is practically 0. I actually do not think any of these statistics matter, because data driven decisions are not timely by definition. What mattered is that the entire western world failed to react in time.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#150

Post by peytn »

hef19898 wrote: post #47
ethanbond wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think incompetent is harsh, but they had a bad data submission and also a dosing error. Neither is a good look. Neither ended up being a big problem but they could’ve been.

Yeah, that was an issue. I cannot tell how much of an issue, because I have zero experience with medical trials. As do most people, I assume, getting upset about that. Regardless, AZ got approval in the UK and from EMA in the EU. And these entities job is clinical trial assessment. Unless I am going to refuse any and all drugs and medical treatment, I will have to trust e.g. EMA that the stuff I take when being sick…

I’ve got a little bit of FDA experience, but of course no COVID-19 EUA experience. Based on what we submitted to the FDA and the comments we received, I would personally think it most likely there were many issues with AZ’s materials, at least as far as their attempts to seek approval from the FDA went.
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