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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#141

Post by CodeGlitch »

worik wrote: post #102
CodeGlitch wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: I do wonder if some boss in the future will only employ straight white males simply to avoid people "offending" others (it's hard to offend a straight white male in this new woke ideology). Of course this has the opposite effect to what the woke seem to want, but this is the world we have built ourselves.

Diversity is a competitive advantage.

This is cargo-cult thinking.

Let's say you never employ any women in your org: this means you never have to deal with pregnancies and lengthy maternity leave, hospital visits, etc. Straight away you have an advantage over your competition simply due to the extra man-hours (heh!). In software dev I've never encountered a situation where having women devs would make a blind bit of difference to the outcome.

Of course this is deeply unfair on women, and we all want to live in a fairer society, I just don't think the woke ideology is the solution.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#142

Post by worik »

zepto wrote: post #80
worik wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not good. Some of us have felt like that for thirty years. Once apon a time there were a group of people who swaggered through life saying whatever popped into their brains whom ever it offended or belittled. They engaged in metaphorical, but brutal, wrestling matches not just with each other but with any body who crossed their paths. Now life is very hard for them. Should have happened thirty years ago. Has it gone…

Ok - but are you sure the people who are feeling like this now have anything to do with what was happening thirty years ago?

Mostly they were not born!

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#143

Post by blippage »

asjldkfin wrote: post #28

I feel like history is going to look at this phenomenon as a strange curiosity, the same way we look at the Inquisition or the Salem Witch Trials today or even some of the communist revolutions. People will say "It's pretty unbelievable that happened, because no sane individual would ever condone something so extreme."

My own pet theory is that each age has a Great Insanity, almost like it's some kind of cosmic human constant. The particular insanity varies from generation to generation, but it still exists.

It might be witches in one generation, flying saucers, communists in another, Jews in another, or blacks; the possibilities are inexhaustible. We don't know what the next Insanity will be, only that there will be one.

I have a hunch that, roll on a hundred years, everything will turn full circle and we'll be back to segregation of the sexes. "Of course the whole thing was a folly," future generation will claim, "what absurd notion led them to the idea that men and women were the same anyway?"

Each generation has the conceit that it is more enlightened than the last, little realising that they are no smarter than the one before.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#144

Post by dang »

randomopining wrote: post #109
mattlondon wrote: post #15

Anecdotal but my office is ultra -woke. There are endless internal emails about whatever-week, or veterans-this, or LBGTQ+-that etc etc. People have been hounded out and either quit or been fired for fairly minor "infractions" of the groupthink (...and also some people have rightly been fired for actual inappropriate behaviour). And guess what all this talk about "toxic masculinity" and generally vilifying all men le…

Ew! White man expressing himself! Please don’t express your experiences or opinions on things. If you were one of these _____ , we would love to hear your life experiences or opinions on things. Because you were not born one of these ____, we don’t. Regards, Your Morally Superior GroupThink Social Overlords

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how strongly you feel about a topic. Nothing good can come of this—just internet hellfire, which leads to scorched earth, which is all the same, which is uninteresting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#145

Post by paulryanrogers »

Darmody wrote: post #73
steve_g wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Think about what a white man would do" seems completely ambiguous to me. It's not a clear way to communicate. It would be better to follow up "I see you're hesitating to take credit for your work" with specific examples of what she might be able to say. Or you could give examples of behavior that people she knows have exhibited. Even if "what a white man would do" wasn't emotionally charged (and it is), it's not a g…

I can't imagine how someone would think that is a good suggestion. Are they implying white men are smarter/better so they always take the right decisions? If that's what they're doing, they're also implying, in this case, she, as a black woman, is not as smart as a white man. I'm a white man surrounded by mostly white people working on a field with mostly white men and I can't say what a white man would do in certain…

A generous interpretation would be that a white man typically mentions their accomplishments without reservation. I.e. they are comfortable speaking up in almost any circumstance. (They most often are in secure in their employment and role.)

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#146

Post by BobbyJo »

worik wrote: post #102
CodeGlitch wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: I do wonder if some boss in the future will only employ straight white males simply to avoid people "offending" others (it's hard to offend a straight white male in this new woke ideology). Of course this has the opposite effect to what the woke seem to want, but this is the world we have built ourselves.

Diversity is a competitive advantage.

The competitive advantage is hard to quantify though, whereas the disadvantage can be felt directly and immediately if you aren't careful. If someone gets burned, it's hard to see how a vague notion of some intangible advantage would push them to risk a repeat.

As a white male from a poor southern family (not very tolerant) I've had to learn a few hard lessons on similar fronts. I know I don't have a good gauge for what is and isn't ok, even now. Given that in many occasions even mirroring words or behaviors can be a no-no, the only way I've learned that is 100% effective at not causing problems is shutting up, which I'm generally pretty bad at. Luckily I've had mostly understanding and light hearted coworkers, so I haven't been outright ruined yet, but I can think of more than one occasion that likely would have turned my life upside down if the audience was less sensitive to my intent.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#147

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #66
blabitty wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll probably get downvoted for this but I think desirable vs toxic masculinity tends to depend on whether the woman in question finds the man in question attractive.

Lookism is the final -ism that lacks a social justice movement. Incels and disfigured people are the closest thing to the "underclass" of physical attractiveness. Yes, many time the distinction in the margins between toxic and desirable masculinity is partially based on the attractiveness of the person in question. For what it's worth - men and women are equally bad in regards to lookism. I think we need to simply st…

Or sodomizing a minor like roman polanski...

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#149

Post by Causality1 »

It's gotten to the point that my first and ongoing assessment of someone is how "cool" they are. Sort of the identity politics version of whether you're the type of person who yells at a waiter. In my experience about 75% of people are cool.

If you're cool, I'm candid around you. If you're not cool, I'm treating you like you're radioactive. Everything I say is carefully considered. Controversy of any kind is studiously avoided. Most likely I avoid dealing with you at all when I can, and certainly avoid being alone with you with no witnesses. If that's sexist or racist I really don't give a damn.

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