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We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

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Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#141

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nakovet wrote: post #20

Alternatively, I tried using DigitalOcean app platform (side note: super hard to Google for help due to the generic name) and it was way harder than setting up Heroku, I invested multiple hours in a few days and when I finally got the app running I was not confident enough to proceed with the migration yet. Things I've noticed: * Segmentation Fault when deploying a Rails app, Heroku just works. * Ability to add Postg…

"There is a lot of potential on Digital Ocean, it in its infancy, the thing I like the most about it is $ for spec, with a $50 Heroku dyno I get 1GB RAM at DO the specs are way superior."

You can a real server for about that money too, and it will leave all the clouds in the dust

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#142

Post by gagege »

squaresmile wrote: post #129
dnsmichi wrote: post #100

Author here. This post doesn't live up to its title, I'm sorry about that. The title should have been 'We are building a better Heroku FOR PRODUCTION APPS' (we'll add the 'for production apps' to the title) It should have emphasized the _building_ part, we're just starting. The current 5 minute production app doesn't hold a candle to Heroku at the moment. It should have made it clear the goals is to improve the speed…

Yeah, I agree with the comments that the "for production apps" distinction is a bit weird. I would title it "We are building a Heroku-like experience for big cloud providers". I can see the point of a service like this and the comparison is cool but there's no need to complain about Heroku, especially when the Gitlab services are not 100% equivalent. If you come for the champ, you'd better not miss and all that.

The title you came up with makes WAY more sense than the actual article. Now I understand what they're doing and that's honestly pretty cool. They just need a better writer.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#143

Post by colonwqbang »

What a poor article.

> Especially Heroku as a deployment platform is a new area for me.

Maybe you should get some more experience with the product before writing your critique? Or write about something you know more about.

> Getting there and installing the pre-requisites on the CLI took longer than expected.

No mention of how long, but when you use your own tool instead you time it down to the second...

> Lots of CLI commands involved, and it did not run in a CI/CD pipeline with additional tests before deploying it.

You published your code on github, so we can all see that you didn't actually write any tests. Heroku does actually have a CI offering, but let's just ignore that I guess?

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#144

Post by jlengrand »

Completely out of topic, but I think there is almost a perfect sync (with about a year of buffer) between the moment we lost the famous "gitlab CEO here" comments on HN and the moment where comments on HN starting shifting towards the negative side.

Long gone are the 'gitlab is so amazing' comments, and the top comments are usually much more critical (clickbait, stability, . . .).

Not taking sides, just an observation that I make to myself pretty much every time I see Gitlab over here.

For reference : https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2Dsite%3Amedium.com%2...

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#145

Post by cwhiz »

This is wild. Complains about having to read the Heroku documentation, and then goes through the steps to showcase how absurdly simple it is to deploy to Heroku with the CLI. It almost reads like an advertisement for Heroku.

...then goes on to show it could be done in GitLab in a more convoluted way. Ignores the fact that Heroku doesn't require GitLab, and seems to not be aware that Heroku does not require the CLI to deploy.

...and the GL steps require that you have previously created an AWS account, IAM, and have the credentials.

At the end of it all, it's obvious GL is using Terraform at the back end, anyway.

I'm left wondering why anyone would use this? Heroku is stupid easy to set up and get going, but you wouldn't use it if your production demands were getting complicated. However, if your production demands were getting complicated you surely would not use this GL solution. This entire thing seems to be a solution in search of a problem. I don't get it.

And ultimately I wouldn't want my entire deployment pipeline to be dependent on my code hosting provider. GitLab just 5x'd their prices a few months ago. Going all in on them for your entire CI/CD pipeline just seems crazy to me.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#146

Post by sytse »

detaro wrote: post #120
sytse wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree, this should have been about it production app, not a development app which is already great on Heroku. Also see this post by the author https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26555617

What difference is the "production app" distinction supposed to make? Its not clear from neither the article nor the linked comment. If it's an attempt to suggest that Heroku isn't suitable for production use, that's going to need a lot of argument backing it up.

A production app has stateful services that retain data between deployments. The ambition of the 5 minute production app is to make this faster than doing it on Heroku.

The article doesn't make this case at all. Heroku is suitable for production and we didn't intent to suggest otherwise.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#147

Post by cmorgan31 »

tnolet wrote: post #86

> "A typical web app requires a database, storage or caching backend, which can get complicated to run with Heroku." Ah no. That is exactly where Heroku is dead easy. The creating, maintaining, updating and general day-to-day management of these "addons" require almost no input from the user. DB failover and mgmt is almost magic. I wished GitLab would stay away from this needless, click bait type articles. It's not e…

You're reading an employee's blog post not a gitlab corporate announcement. It's clear the author hasn't used Heroku's paid services at a larger scale given the points you've already made. I totally agree with the ease of use for Heroku and if you want to eat part of their market share you better make sure you're focused on the right aspect of Heroku.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#148

Post by supernovae »

detaro wrote: post #122
boleary-gl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Production apps in a hyper scale cloud

What do you think where Heroku apps run? Why would anyone truly caring about hyperscale trust Gitlab to handle that?

yeah, i've worked at "hyperscale" and not once have we ever thought about gitlab... (nor heroku - but we loved heroku for many small projects)

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#149

Post by alecbz »

cmorgan31 wrote: post #147
tnolet wrote: post #86

> "A typical web app requires a database, storage or caching backend, which can get complicated to run with Heroku." Ah no. That is exactly where Heroku is dead easy. The creating, maintaining, updating and general day-to-day management of these "addons" require almost no input from the user. DB failover and mgmt is almost magic. I wished GitLab would stay away from this needless, click bait type articles. It's not e…

You're reading an employee's blog post not a gitlab corporate announcement. It's clear the author hasn't used Heroku's paid services at a larger scale given the points you've already made. I totally agree with the ease of use for Heroku and if you want to eat part of their market share you better make sure you're focused on the right aspect of Heroku.

It's a blog post on the company's official blog, no? I doubt it's like a free-for-all where any employee can post whatever they want without any review. Judging GitLab based on the content posted on their blog seems like fair game.

Re: We are far from a better Heroku for production apps in a hyper cloud

#150

Post by gagege »

geerlingguy wrote: post #45

> Ended up in a Heroku blackbox for your stateful web app? GitLab introduces a better Heroku integrated into your DevSecOps workflow: The 5 minute production app. Are we sure this wasn't written by some sort of new AI bot GitLab is employing? So many keywords stuffed in those opening lines. The comparison in the article is incredibly naive, IMO; they are not being a better Heroku, this is just demonstrating something…

I have decent knowledge of those tools and I'd still rather use Heroku for a simple production app.
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