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Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

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Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#141

Post by AlexC04 »

theshrike79 wrote: post #99
AlexC04 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a funny coincidence is that I've been thinking about almost exactly this for a little while. Just in the last two weeks I decided to create a podcast where I interview the exact types of developers who optimize SQL inside business apps. In fact, literally just last night I recorded and uploaded (to YouTube and the various podcast platforms) episode zero. Not an actual interview yet, but a statement of purpose…

Please don't start another podcast. Or if you absolutely must, please provide a text version of the content. Podcasts aren't searchable, they aren't skimmable and their content isn't indexed in search engines. Text is.

Sorry you're getting downvoted on this post. I found your data point useful. Even though I disagree that there are enough podcasts serving the senior developer / corporate programmer niche, being made aware of the existence of "podcast exhaustion" is valuable, and the discussion convinced me that a transcription service is worth it.

I'd hate for negative attention to result in a chilling effect on your decision to voice your opinion in future.

I can't remove your downvotes, but I can say thank you a second time.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#142

Post by Klinky »

peruvian wrote: post #135
Klinky wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you even know the actual impact you had on revenue/profits? Engineering is often many layers removed from customer interactions, sales and accounting. Some companies have complex and opaque revenue channels. Frankly I take any claims of direct revenue/profit growth/generation with a grain of salt. Typically at best, you're wildly guessing, at worst, you're outright lying.

This should be part of the product spec or even tech spec. If you cannot measure the impact, why're you working on it?

You are talking about the project/product itself. Does your company sit down each quarter and crunch who specifically was responsible for the revenue and profits that quarter, down to the employee or lines of code? Doubtful.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#143

Post by 20thCB »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #127
blinkymach12 wrote: post #18

Hey Patrick! Thanks for the article. "Producing Artifacts" is definitely what we called that at Fog Creek, and I think our cousins at Stack may have used a different term but followed much the same spirit. I didn't realize until now that that was a term from our little software microcosm, I had assumed it was one of the terms that was known broadly in the startupverse. I definitely came to my opinions around it throu…

In my experience, I have pointed people to a vast array of shipping (and formerly shipping) software, and even hardware. I have a StackOverflow story (check my ID) that is a mile long. There are complete, top-to-bottom, ship-ready apps, with localization, testing, documentation, provisioning, etc. Someone can, literally, clone any of my repos, and produce a full-feature, ready-to-ship application. I have many, many,…

- I'm not young

There's your answer.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#144

Post by Swizec »

Klinky wrote: post #136
Swizec wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PM you worked with should be able to answer this question. If they can’t, your project is likely a waste of time. The signal from a hiring standpoint is that you asked and cared about this. Engineers who will just do whatever are less useful/impactful than engineers who push back and care about the value they’re delivering. Even if it’s sometimes fuzzy to estimate.

Your original example is very specific, but your follow up clarifies that the reality is that it is vague guesswork. I think you could claim contribution, but very hard to define that line x of code written last Friday resulted directly in y% of profits. To me it signals you're probably exaggerating. You better be able to back up your reasoning behind your claim. Bold claims require bold explanations.

It’s not vague guesswork at all. If you can’t measure the success of your project, why are you doing it?

It’s okay, even expected, if the answer is probabilistic. What’s not okay is doing stuff for no reason.

Bonus points if you’re able to tell a story like: We did X to achieve Y, but it didn’t work because Z. So we tried ...

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#146

Post by Klinky »

Swizec wrote: post #144
Klinky wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your original example is very specific, but your follow up clarifies that the reality is that it is vague guesswork. I think you could claim contribution, but very hard to define that line x of code written last Friday resulted directly in y% of profits. To me it signals you're probably exaggerating. You better be able to back up your reasoning behind your claim. Bold claims require bold explanations.

It’s not vague guesswork at all. If you can’t measure the success of your project, why are you doing it? It’s okay, even expected, if the answer is probabilistic. What’s not okay is doing stuff for no reason. Bonus points if you’re able to tell a story like: We did X to achieve Y, but it didn’t work because Z. So we tried ...

This goes back to the tying of a SQL query directly to profits. That would be an interesting story if it were true, but such a story is probably an extreme rarity.

We're talking about calculating the impact of your weekly or daily work directly to profit generation. There is a level of granularity and detail to your claim that is likely impossible to realistically calculate, so it would be very hard to accept such claims at face value.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#147

Post by iamacyborg »

AlexC04 wrote: post #138
iamacyborg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give it a try for audio editing make sure you record different podcast guests on separate audio tracks, makes the whole thing significantly better. I wrote a few thoughts on my blog about how I went about starting with the podcast including tools used, might be useful? https://www.jacquescorbytuech.com/writing/starting-a-podcast

You don't even know how valuable this is to me at this exact moment in time. My first interview is tomorrow night! Fortunately, it is with a friend and co-worker who has the hacker mindset and will be willing to work through hiccups in technology. I'm trying to pick a video conference platform to try. Do I discord? Zoom? Try to find a way to set up audio line-in from my android phone. I need a solution for tomorrow n…

100% zoom, if only because it lets you record a separate audio track per speaker. Make sure you’re both off mute when the recording starts otherwise the audio tracks won’t be the same length

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#148

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

20thCB wrote: post #143
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, I have pointed people to a vast array of shipping (and formerly shipping) software, and even hardware. I have a StackOverflow story (check my ID) that is a mile long. There are complete, top-to-bottom, ship-ready apps, with localization, testing, documentation, provisioning, etc. Someone can, literally, clone any of my repos, and produce a full-feature, ready-to-ship application. I have many, many,…

- I'm not young There's your answer.

Yeah, I know. I just don't feel that it's constructive to complain about it. I don't deny it; I just won't let it stop me.

Despite all that, I have it real good. I am able to do work that I love (and not get paid a dime for it), and live a life that includes friends, health, wonder and joy.

I may not be a TED-talkin', man-bunned, skinny-jeans-wearin' jargonaut, but the folks that end up working with me are very, very happy to do so.

I've (not exaggerating) been shipping (as in "delivering finished product") software my entire adult life.

That tends to make my work speak for itself.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#149

Post by systematical »

I had one good outcome from the pandemic (besides no dying). I had an abundance of time and years of programming experience plus some good ideas. I went all in all writing some OSS and to my surprise people actually began using these libraries. Some even contributed PRs! I in turn began feeling more confident to contribute PRs to other projects. Some were even accepted!

So the take away I got from this article is. Why spend time writing something that "decorates" or improves some OSS in userland and will be lost for eternity in a private code base when I could open source it. This depends on the type of company you work for of course, but to the authors point, why work at a company that doesn't embrace contributing back to the OSS these free loading capitalists have built their business on.

Re: Don't End the Week with Nothing (2014)

#150

Post by [deleted] »

Swizec wrote: post #119
Klinky wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you even know the actual impact you had on revenue/profits? Engineering is often many layers removed from customer interactions, sales and accounting. Some companies have complex and opaque revenue channels. Frankly I take any claims of direct revenue/profit growth/generation with a grain of salt. Typically at best, you're wildly guessing, at worst, you're outright lying.

The PM you worked with should be able to answer this question. If they can’t, your project is likely a waste of time. The signal from a hiring standpoint is that you asked and cared about this. Engineers who will just do whatever are less useful/impactful than engineers who push back and care about the value they’re delivering. Even if it’s sometimes fuzzy to estimate.

[deleted]
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