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Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

ochronus.online

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Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#141
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this. I enjoy management and coding. However, when I'm in a manager role, I consider contributing with coding to be an essential part of the job, to maintain my ability to lead the team with credibility, truly understand what their job is like, and differentiate myself relative to other managers, who by and large have bought into the narrative they can't and shouldn't try to code. This cuts directl…

I would like to add my perspective as an IC who is reporting to a technically-focused manager. I feel frustrated that my manager does not spend even 10% of the time they spend coding on coaching/guiding/giving feedback to me. I feel that part is more important aspect of being a manager compared to churning out code. I understand the need to keep on top of the codebase, especially when coding is something you really l…

Yeah I think this just shows the trade-offs. The path forward for your manager here is to grok they need to turn the dial, at least in their relationship with you. What I reject is the idea that the dial needs to be dialed all the way away from coding, especially permanently, or that doing so is not without immense costs.

It certainly makes the job of a manager harder when you are forced to reckon with the fact that you can't just throw out coding without it undermining your ability to be a good manager. In practice, I would try to ebb-and-flow with the teams' needs - it's a dynamic, challenging process.

Also, there's a tricky issue of, as a report, being able to identify what is intentional vs unintentional. Your manager is probably failing you, but there's also a chance they are forcing you to grow by disengaging a bit and letting you fall into a few ditches. Sometimes a good coach will just shut up and let you make mistakes. Until you see the net effect of their behavior on you over an extended period, you can't know if you have a good coach who is pushing you in a way that you can't see, or a bad coach who is just failing you. A lot of people with good coaches resent them in the early days for being too hard, too disengaged, or other things, which forces them to push themselves harder.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#142
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that if you’re a manager who has no other marketable skills, you can only hate pointless meetings so much since without them you’d probably be putting your resume in down at the local Starbucks. Clear an engineer’s calendar and you probably make a more productive engineer, clear a manager’s calendar and regardless of the consequences to everyone else one thing is sure: that person’s job function is no lo…

Good managers should abhor pointless meetings as much as anyone else - their task is to make useful meetings. Anything else is just a waste of time and wasting everyone’s time is not exactly the hallmark of a good manager. Now, there’s people that hate all meetings and regard them all as a waste of time and if you’re one of those, you’ll never acquire the skill to actually make meetings useful - this is a skill which…

If you work in an organization where such meetings are the norm, please share what led to such a magical place. I've heard Amazon is such a place but I'm very skeptical. My general presumption based upon years in the industry is that by far the majority of scheduled, large block meetings are not worth the opportunity cost of having them. Effective meetings don't come from an individual transforming normally ineffective ones into effective ones by some form of wizardry over everyone else in the room, they come from a culture where everyone makes them effective together through shared values. In a large enough organization, this seems basically intractable to maintain. IMO the only way to win is to not play and move most meetings to short, unscheduled ones with timeboxes in conjunction with asynchronous communication tools.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#143
post #65

1. Become an engineering manager 2. Stop coding 3. Do well for a few years until you become out of touch 4. Watch your team stop respecting you on technical subjects because you’re behind the times and too rusty but don’t know it so look foolish and are ignored when you give suggestions, which radically undermines your relationships with them as well as your ability to lead 5. Watch as your role morphs from a manager…

> unless you happen to have been born with natural leadership skills (you probably haven’t) Leadership skills are important, but I disagree that leadership is something you’re either born with or not. Leadership can be taught, learned, and practiced. The real issue is that a lot of people who are pushed or drawn into management roles don’t actually like managing or leading. Some are pushed into management because the…

> Some are pushed into management because they’re the most competent IC on the team.

So Plato's Republic describes how this comes about since ancient times, I wrote something a bit more detailed[1] about it.

But here's the TL;DR - the punishment is that he who refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by one who is worse than himself. And the fear of this, induces the good to take office, not because they would, but because they cannot help ... because they are not able to commit the task of ruling to any one who is better than themselves, or indeed as good.

Some are pulled into management because of the existing mastery and a looming management vacuum.

This isn't something new in tech - it has always been that competent people leave their mastery work to do management (rather politics of ensuring funding), because they see no other choice.

Until I found a manager who was better than I was (and once I understood how they did it and what they did all day), I did think in very similar lines, a little bit aided by the "I'm a smart guy" ego clouding my judgement.

[1] - http://notmysock.org/blog/philosophy/leading-up?h=1

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#144
post #65

1. Become an engineering manager 2. Stop coding 3. Do well for a few years until you become out of touch 4. Watch your team stop respecting you on technical subjects because you’re behind the times and too rusty but don’t know it so look foolish and are ignored when you give suggestions, which radically undermines your relationships with them as well as your ability to lead 5. Watch as your role morphs from a manager…

I hope your realise that the days of being a white, middle aged programmer are coming to a close. If anything, get some management/leadership skills under your belt if you get the chance.

I've managed several teams at this point (maybe poorly?) and have been hearing this warning for at least the last decade from the other managers who can no longer ship software because they bought into the idea that being able to do so meant they were choosing to be worse managers and therefore harm their team. (I don't know what being white has to do with it.) I'm pretty sure the tendency to instill this kind of fear in others often comes from the need to rationalize the choice such people made to leave behind their hard-earned ability to build and ship software. Since if it wasn't the case the people like me would eventually come to realize their profound error, now ruined by their mistake to prepare for their eventual undoing (due to age? AI?), it would mean that they gave up something that presumably made them happy, that they can't get back easily. I was told this will happen to me when I got married, bought a house, or had a family. Those events did not have the effect, so I presume when people told me this it just meant they had those changes in their lives force them to decide their coding days were behind them.

For the most part these people are now never going to be ICs again and must find a path that lets them hop from one VP of Eng job to another. It's a lucrative gig but feels a bit like a house of cards ready to crumble at any time, at least that's how it would feel to me if it was my only forward-looking career path. When belts tighten they're the first to go.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t want to work for you, since it sounds like I would be put into a small box where I would have limited value and potential for growth. The only way to produce more value is to finish my projects faster. No thanks.

Well it's likely I wouldn't want to hire or sponsor you either because you seem to jump to conclusions and make incorrect assumptions. The projects I manage are open source, I pay in crypto (which has been going up in price so my team is earning more over time) and I pay based on value added (small base sponsorship amount + generous bonuses at the end of each month based on delivered value) not lines of code or hours…

I wasn't convinced of the gp commenter's sentiment about you being a less-than-ideal boss to work with but it seems you proved his/her point.

Not sure whether you actually understand the issue raised by him/her -- the process of defining, designing and architecting a solution is very much something that an junior engineer would aspire to be able to take responsibility for one day. But under your working model, only one person (you) would be mainly responsible for doing that, and other people could only prove their worth by doing their piecemeal work (the small and isolated "projects") faster.

Not saying that this is actually true, and from your original comment it seems that it might not be completely true, but that's what the the gp commenter wanted to say. And you seem to confirm it in this comment -- you praise people who work fast but haven't seen you mention about their code quality or "taste" in architecture or design.

... and I haven't mentioned the retaliatory vitriol. Seriously, talk about jumping to conclusions...

Personally, I would wonder how you assess "delivered value", given that this is basically one of the hardest problems to solve involving questions about asthetics, ethics, business management, leadership, capitalism and even the worth of a person's time... but I'd jump to my own conclusions and will assume you think you have figured it all out :)

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#146
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you happen to have been born with natural leadership skills (you probably haven’t) Leadership skills are important, but I disagree that leadership is something you’re either born with or not. Leadership can be taught, learned, and practiced. The real issue is that a lot of people who are pushed or drawn into management roles don’t actually like managing or leading. Some are pushed into management because the…

>The real issue is that a lot of people who are pushed or drawn into management roles don’t actually like managing or leading. Some are pushed into management because they’re the most competent IC on the team I think this is spot-on. People, for whatever reason, view management as the next step of a career when it's actually a career change. Yes, it's in the same domain, but it's a totally different job. I've done th…

I was pushed into it because they needed a supervisor in that position. I might be a decent leader from a technical standpoint, but not a good manager after a year into it.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#147

As a new eng manager with about a year under my belt, #1 really hits the nail on the head. I couldn’t step away from the code because I was so used to IC. Now as a result, I’m having very difficult discussions about promotions (or lack thereof), because I didn’t give my team the chance to grow.

This sounds like it's not too late to turn the ship around. It's also tricky, for some folks it's enough to see space for growth and they do it automagically, for others you need lots of conversations and gentle nudging. Don't be too hard on yourself, just start fruitful career discussions with your team.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#148

Just wondering, is job hopping as engineering manager as easy as coder/individual contributor? It seems like the market for people with focus on soft skills is way more saturated (we get many more applications for project management roles than for software developers for example).

Project managers != engineering managers. Project management is a pretty saturated field, you are correct. Engineering team management is considerably less saturated and EMs are just as in-demand as ICs. However, much of the value of a good EM is derived as someone who builds and grows a team over a long period of time, so you don't see nearly as much short-term job hopping as you do with ICs.

+1 Author here: the other thing is (at least for me) that it becomes really hard to leave my team after a while because they just grow on me. I feel responsible for their wellbeing and want to make sure they are set up for success. When I was an IC it was much easier (in my head).

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#149
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good managers should abhor pointless meetings as much as anyone else - their task is to make useful meetings. Anything else is just a waste of time and wasting everyone’s time is not exactly the hallmark of a good manager. Now, there’s people that hate all meetings and regard them all as a waste of time and if you’re one of those, you’ll never acquire the skill to actually make meetings useful - this is a skill which…

If you work in an organization where such meetings are the norm, please share what led to such a magical place. I've heard Amazon is such a place but I'm very skeptical. My general presumption based upon years in the industry is that by far the majority of scheduled, large block meetings are not worth the opportunity cost of having them. Effective meetings don't come from an individual transforming normally ineffecti…

> My general presumption based upon years in the industry is that by far the majority of scheduled, large block meetings are not worth the opportunity cost of having them.

I entirely agree with you here - I disagree with the notion that "managers" (should) like those meetings any more than other folks. Most large block meetings are ineffective, the more effective ones have a strict agenda and someone moderating them with that agenda in mind. They can be useful for announcements or large-scale alignment, but most of them should be struck from the calendar with no replacement - and good managers recognize this and strive to do so.

> Effective meetings don't come from an individual transforming normally ineffective ones into effective ones by some form of wizardry over everyone else in the room, they come from a culture where everyone makes them effective together through shared values.

The person leading a meeting can make a substantial impact - being prepared, making an agenda and a plan, setting a clear goal for the meeting, deliberately limiting the number of people attending, requiring others to come prepared and enforcing that (possible adjourning the meeting if it turns out to be ineffective), time boxing. There's no magic place where all meetings are effective or feel effective for everyone, but there are places that try to improve and there are techniques that make improvement possible.

Re: Common Mistakes of New Engineering Managers

#150

In my experience the "mistakes" mentioned in the article are mostly a motivation problem. The assumption is that a successful engineering manager is one that makes their team thrive whereas in reality the companies only reward individual success. Same goes for developers, best developers only get junior->senior promotions while the ones that join the most meetings and do strategical thinking goes towards engineering…

Thanks for bringing this up! This is all definitely true for way too many companies :/ One of the questions I ask when I think about switching companies as an engineering manager is: "How will you know if I'm doing a sh*tty job?" - you'd be surprised how few companies can give a proper answer to this.
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