Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets • Hacker News Board

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#141

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #108

ceejayoz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, could they close stores/facilities in Utah, and still sell to Utahans online? Commerce clause seems like it'd protect that.

Eh, it's a tossup. Commerce clause protections for interstate trade only go so far, some attempts by states to regulate what can be sold or how have passed court tests, others have not. It hinges on whether the regulation would be discriminatory or overly burdensome. To get such a law struck down, phone sellers would have to prove to the court that setting up Utah-specific phones would be excessively difficult. I don…

It'd be at arms length for the manufacturers. Someone with a web store would be the one selling non-compliant phones to Utah residents.

When Utah shut them down, someone else would start a web store selling non-compliant phones to Utah residents.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#142

Post by edbob » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #136

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, (also FYI), adherents prefer if you refer to the church as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and members of said church "Latter-day Saints" or simply "Christians". I have a hard time referring to them as Christians when they think that the non-Latter-Day Christians are someone that needs converted. They sure send a lot of missionaries to go after (other) Christians. They sure seem to teach…

> I have a hard time referring to them as Christians when they think that the non-Latter-Day Christians are someone that needs converted. Most Christian groups think that “Christians” outside of their group need to be converted. There are theological reasons why large groups of Christians exclude LDS, SDA, JW, and certain other groups that self-identify as “Christian” from the scope of that term (while still includin…

I think I know why you're saying that, but at least in Texas most people who identify as Christian aren't really aware of the differences between groups. If one believes that Jesus is God, it doesn't matter if they even go to church at all, or if they go to evangelical or Catholic services. It's all considered Christian, and social circles often include people from vastly different denominations.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#143

Post by giantg2 » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #135

giantg2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily taking one side ot the other, but they also have very restrictive fireworks laws. Also, I don't know about Montgomery Co, but PG Co (and others) has liquor beer etc in all sorts of small shops.

> Not necessarily taking one side ot the other, but they also have very restrictive fireworks laws. Utah is a really dry state. Fireworks have a bad tendency to start fires out here, fires that can get rather large. It's not that they're spoilsports (with respect to fireworks), it's that they have experienced some significant downsides.

But if that's really the reason, then why not regulate it like burning rather than have only specific dates that they can be used? From what I remember, there's only 4 or 5 holidays/weeks they can be used.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#144

Post by samatman » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #59

johndevor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has probably more to do with the Morman church in Utah than the GOP.

(FYI it's Mormon*, named after the Book of Mormon) However, (also FYI), adherents prefer if you refer to the church as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and members of said church "Latter-day Saints" or simply "Christians". I know "Mormon" is a long-standing nickname and most people don't intend to use the term derogatorily, but calling Latter-day Saints "Mormons" is like nicknaming Muslims "Mohammeds…

All due respect but I don't care.

There are atheists who would like me to call them "Brights" but I won't do that because it's conceited and pretentious.

I won't be calling Mormons Saints either.

Edit: I do refer to the church as "LDS" though, "the Mormon church" is underspecified.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#145

Post by edbob » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #3

I’ll take pointless virtue signaling to moral voters for $100, Alex.

It's neither pointless nor virtue signaling. I'm not Mormon, but it's commonly understood that Utah is an LDS state and follows LDS beliefs.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#146

Post by mandragon » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

wait_a_minute wrote: post #16

mandragon wrote: post #11

Sounds fine; it's their culture and prerogative. Probably a benefit to deter such consumption for as many youth and young adults as possible, given the negative impact on mental health.

No thanks, I’d prefer one state’s extremist religious inclinations not tank liberty for everyone else. They can monitor their own phones and their own computers and leave everyone else’s alone.

Why would this affect other states? Isn't this legislation specific to Utah?

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#147

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

bitdizzy wrote: post #139

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s consistent to believe that free expression allows for deplatforming, and then to have a belief about when deplatforming is necessary. I don’t think it’s consistent to think that deplatforming is wrong, but only when the type of deplatforming that was most recently brought to your attention is a kind you don’t like. I think “free expression” in this context is more like a tool for argumentation than a rea…

Do you think the distinction between government interdiction and private is immaterial? I think I regard the distinction between business and government a lot less than most but still understand that there are significant differences between the two and some people think those differences are extremely important. But what is meant by tribalism?

In this other thread I point out examples of government passing and proposing regulations about hate speech deplatforming: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26363013

By tribalism, I mean that people have an intuition for whether the deplatforming is promoted by, or used against, people who they identify with, and that guides their views on whether deplatforming is appropriate. For example, people in one tribe have recently been identifying with people who got deplatformed for hate speech or incitement and they believe these efforts are driven by the repressive values of another tribe. Others read the story about porn and think about how Utah legislators are part of some other tribe, and that leads that to make some argument from free expression (I think the highest rated comment here about “small government” is a good example).

You could make an argument that’s more tribe-independent like this: “limiting freedom of expression by deplatforming is appropriate, but only to prevent a legitimate harm”. Then the two tribes would try to justify their side by debating about which harms are legitimate, which at least has a chance of being data-driven.

People who say that deplatforming is never or always appropriate get points for consistency. But I suspect that their comments will mostly be upvoted on stories where the principle aligns with the more prevalent tribe.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#148

Post by mandragon » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #85

mandragon wrote: post #11

Sounds fine; it's their culture and prerogative. Probably a benefit to deter such consumption for as many youth and young adults as possible, given the negative impact on mental health.

Who is 'they' in 'their culture'? And what is 'culture'? Religion? Surely there are atheists in Utah who don't want to go on a government list of porn watchers.

This seems more about blocking. Internet activity is already tracked.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#149

Post by edbob » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

octopoc wrote: post #106

> “One of the most difficult challenges I work with are the effects from pornography,” Gibson said. “Average age of first exposure, which is often accidental, is 10 to 11 years old. Anything we can do to help prevent that puts us in a proactive rather than a defensive position. I'm sure many of us can confirm exposure at such a young age. My friends and I were all exposed around that age. I hate the fact that I was e…

I had this experience as well. I also didn't think it was harmful, but as I've gotten to know a female friend better I can see what a destructive and dehumanizing influence pornography has.

Re: Utah bill would require activated porn filter software on new phones, tablets

#150

Post by mandragon » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #14

mandragon wrote: post #11

Sounds fine; it's their culture and prerogative. Probably a benefit to deter such consumption for as many youth and young adults as possible, given the negative impact on mental health.

Jim Crow was a significant part of the South's culture, and no state has the prerogative of First Amendment violations.

And yet, the intention is to deter usage of a product/vice that is a bane on America. Cut the supply is effective at reducing consumption.

Is this really 1A when we are talking about mental health of our children? It's fairly well established that no pornography consumption is a net positive.