Female Founder Secrets: Fertility • Hacker News Board

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#141

Post by foolinaround » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

this is also a big reason why several women who have chosen to stay home and look after family and kids feel unfulfilled because many of their peers are seen as more valuable by society.

The reason for this unhappiness is then portrayed as the inability of the women to not have a career. it is often, the other way around.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#142

Post by artificialLimbs » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #3

I empathize with how hard it is for a female founder in particular and for a woman in general when it comes to mixing children with a career. That said the advice to freeze your eggs (ie work now, live later) rubs me the wrong way. I wish we could live in a society where people would not have to work themselves to death and were able to... you know... enjoy life

A young Buddhist monk went to a temple one day to renounce his worldly life and find enlightenment. He found the eldest member of the temple to be a very wise man and good friend. This elder also scrubbed the toilets and cleaned up the bathrooms every day.

Seeing this, the new monk spoke with the other monks in the monastery. "This is terrible! The elder should not have to do such a lowly chore. He is a great man and has already helped me to realize many things. I believe we should help give him time to do more relaxing in his old age. Let's take his cleaning supplies and hide them so that he won't have to clean the bathrooms every day." The other monks agreed, and they hid his supplies.

The elder said nothing about the new state of affairs, but instead began fasting. He did not eat for 2 days, then 3, then 5. Concerned, the monks asked him "Why do you not eat?"

The elder replied: "No work, no food."

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#143

Post by jpm_sd » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #7

The only logical answer here is youth. The younger you are the more fertile you are. This is true for both men and women, but more true for women. If you want children at some point in life then prioritize children first and early. I know, this puts your ambitious career on hold for a while and start ups require huge ambition. Still, start up opportunities will not be hyper critically different in the future than the…

I wonder if "children raised mostly by their grandparents" will start to become more common. There's been a rise in multi-generational households lately due to pandemic shifts.

Maybe younger parents who are also clawing their way up the career ladder will be able to take advantage of this situation to offload some parenting to their own parents, and then pay it forward when their own kids have children later on? Might be the only practical way to have kids in your 20s these days.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#144

Post by HuShifang » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

I completely agree with the point here -- people should have the freedom to work a bit less and "live" more (however they define that, be it parenting, pursuing hobbies, or what have you) without fear for their livelihood.

I would offer one amendment: in the US at least, disagreement on this theme is probably one of the major dividing lines between liberals and progressives (and their fellow travelers). Liberals (like Elizabeth Warren, who has labeled herself a progressive but is generally liberal in her policy positions) prioritize free child care and other policies that would make outsourcing childcare less financially onerous, freeing people to work more; progressives and their fellow travelers (like Bernie Sanders and Andrew Yang) prioritize paid family leave, UBI, and other policies that would minimize the need to outsource childcare in the first place by allowing people to work less.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#145

Post by amelius » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

Meanwhile it is impossible for many people to own a house without a double income...

So your idea makes sense, but not in today's economy.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#146

Post by foolinaround » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #137

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

Actually, why must the family homemaker necessarily be a woman? If in a male/female relationship the female is the more ambitious one prioritize the male as the primary care giver. Either way raising children still takes time, energy, and focus that could otherwise pile into something else. While there are differences in general approaches males and females take in raising children I don't think there is any research…

>family homemaker necessarily be a woman

Women, making a broad assumption, seem to have the traits (honed over millemia) of watching over the family.

But in a household, if the husband and wife exhibit the opposite traits, then that must be encouraged too.

I know of a family in which the woman is the bread-winner, the husband takes care of the kids and home, and both are happy.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#147

Post by Karawebnetwork » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

> Why do women have to emulate men to be valuable?

Why do we assume that those behaviors are inherently a man's?

Women that have a drive to become business leaders do so for personal reasons and not to emulate anyone (except perhaps personal heroes who could happen to be women).

You later speak about a wish to become a stay-at-home father. Is this emulating women or is it a wish based on activities that are not inherently gendered such as cooking and taking care of children?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#148

Post by koverda » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

rcpt wrote: post #129

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

In other nations where the state provides good childcare women have historically entered the workforce just fine. It's the US (and especially California) that drains everything possible from young families.

Could you elaborate on why California especially?

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#149

Post by ZephyrBlu » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #131

smoldesu wrote: post #14

And people wonder why the birth rate is continuing to decline. Our nation-wide workaholism is making family life an increasingly distant fantasy. I've had this discussion with my S/O before, and we've always come to the same conclusion: it would be irresponsible for us to adopt while both of us are working. That's a difficult place to be in, considering we're both quite passionate about our jobs. It makes me quite de…

> it would be irresponsible for us to adopt while both of us are working. You are falling into the classic nerd trap which is doing an absolute evaluation when you should be making a relative comparison. The question is not, "Can I raise this adopted child in the optimal way?" The question is, "Will I raise this child at least as good as the other parents they are likely to end up with instead?" It's not like if you…

I have learned that making relative comparisons is useless if you are not at the average.

If you are more capable than the average person, sure you can settle for an around average outcome, but that is very unsatisfying.

The way I perceive things is that I'm going to do something, I'll do it really well or not at all.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Fertility

#150

Post by elliekelly » Thu, Mar 04, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

dcow wrote: post #116

I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frow…

> I think women have largely been presented a false promise by progressives: value and purpose is derived from work, go do what men do to be their equal. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, we live in a society where money is valued. But I wish we could structure society in a way such that the value of raising children, homemaking, is clearly communicated and understood. Being a mother without a snazzy career is frowned upon by plenty of people these days. I don't think that stigma is healthy. Why do women have to emulate men to be valuable?

Why ask these questions only as they relate to women and motherhood? Why haven't men being presented a false promise that value and purpose is derived from work? Being a father without a snazzy career is equally (if not more so) frowned upon by plenty of people these days. I don't think that stigma is healthy, either. Why do men have to emulate other men to be "valuable"? Why do men have to avoid emulating women to be "valuable"?

> Couple that with the fact that depression is most prevalent among childless women in their 40s

I don't know your source for this but you should at least consider the possibility that women, particularly women with financial resources (childless women in their 40s, for example), are significantly more likely to seek mental health treatment compared to similarly situated men. Correlation is not causation and more women being treated for depression does not necessarily mean more women are depressed.