I will give a shout out to Ionic. We use it and love it. I think it accomplishes what Flutter tries to, but with web standards.
Flutter 2
141–150 of 780 posts
Re: Flutter 2
#142Pretty sure I'm the only person on this thread who loves flutter. We use flutter web and Firebase for our hobbyist project, and the results have been simply amazing. Dart makes Typescript look like a joke. The build system alone makes flutter better than React Native ! I'm confident in being able to build any CRUD app in dart Edit, in fact how many of you have actually built a project in flutter .I can't believe anyo…
All of the complaints about flutter I see here are based on people using apps built with flutter, and not about the development experience. "Have you actually build a project in flutter?" is a total non-sequitor response to complaints about how even the official demo is miserable to use.
Re: Flutter 2
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it's running on canvas, normally you would see "unpkg.com/canvaskit-wasm" - and even then it may not be the latest (supposedly more optimized) version. For example, my simple Super Tic Tac Toe app - uses it - https://malkia.github.io/tictactoe/#/ - but the gallery was compiled to use HTML, instead of canvas - which would be slower (IMHO). I think there is even mixed mode - where it can choose one or another ("fat"…
It is. I have wasm disabled and it throws an error: Uncaught ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined and it includes what you mentioned, unpkg.com/canvaskit-wasm@0.24.0/bin/canvaskit.js:150
Ah, you are right - not sure how I missed it first time, but now I see it.
Re: Flutter 2
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I haven’t been following Flutter, but I’m surprised their approach to the web is just shipping their entire custom layout/drawing code in WebAssembly and drawing everything with canvas. I would have expected them to actually port their native UI components (buttons, links, text, etc.) to their corresponding native components on the web, and maybe ship a custom layout engine if CSS layouts aren’t flexible enough…
We actually did try that as our first approach, but it really didn't give you the flexibility that Flutter developers expect. As the erstwhile editor of the HTML standard for ~10 years and the now TL of Flutter I must admit that it's weird to be creating a web framework that completely ignores all the HTML stuff I worked on before. :-) That said, Flutter is different from Flash in some important ways. Flash used the…
Really not fair to compare against flash in this way when wasm wasn’t available and npapi was the only option. That is additionally an implementation detail, Adobe could (theoretically) revive and port flash to wasm today without breaking the majority of applications.
Re: Flutter 2
#145I want to love Flutter. But once looking at it, it's a no go. It's the new flash. Really, you cannot copy the text anymore. React native is my goto solution now.
Flutter team member here. In Flutter, the developer consciously decides which text should be selectable (and thus copy/paste'able), so while it's true that text is not inherently selectable in a Flutter app, text that the app developer decided to make selectable will be.
In the context of the web, this seems like it should be a non-starter. Why should the developer be able to tell the user what can and cannot be selected?
Re: Flutter 2
#146We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…
Flutter does not offer enough to justify learning new programming language.
Re: Flutter 2
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] Still relatively early days for Flutter Web, so I would not be shocked if it's not buttery everywhere. However, we would certainly love to learn more. fluter.dev/support has links as to how to file an issue if you're interested. https://flutterplasma.dev/ is one demo to try. We expect to be updating flutter.dev/web and flutter.dev/showcase to update more over time.
Thanks for the reply! What about a11y? Can you navigate a Flutter page via keyboard? What about screen reader support?
Yes, we consider accessibility a must-have feature. On the web, we have a second DOM tree called the SemanticsNode tree, which is generated in parallel to the RenderObject DOM tree. The SemanticsNode tree translates the flags, actions, labels, and other semantic properties into ARIA attributes. We've been testing Windows Narrator, VoiceOver, TalkBack, and ChromeVox screen readers to navigate a Flutter web app.
Re: Flutter 2
#148I created apps in cordova, react native and now flutter and I have to say flutter beats both by a lot. It's just been such a nice experience. I'm absolutely in love. My most successful app in flutter is https://stockevents.app if you want to try.
I'm a long-time fan of pure web apps, but in my experience, it's more streamlined to develop and ship mobile apps with Flutter than with Cordova and some of the other tools that package web apps for mobile.
Yeah I certainly wouldn't use cordova today, but it was very innovative when it was released and I love what it did for the hybrid space.
Re: Flutter 2
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Things changed a lot, I observed the same symptoms as late as late 2020, I can't reproduce these issues now In general Flutter for Web is _amazing_ if you want to deploy an app. after seeing this thread, pretty clear to me its almost a perfect nerdsnipe - makes perfect sense if you're already building a Flutter codebase, sounds bonkers if you build web apps.
> I can't reproduce these issues now dstaley just said that those issues happen now. " I just tried a few samples, and ..." I just tried the demos over at https://flutter.github.io/samples/#?platform=web and I concur, Flutter is utterly horrible for everything the web stands for. So not amazing and seems to actively make everything worse.
(disclaimer: I work on the Flutter team)
We certainly don't think Flutter should replace HTML or other frameworks. We hope Flutter will work well for many use-cases, but the web is huge. There's room for multiple approaches. If it's not working for your use-case it's totally fine with us if you use something else. We welcome constructive feedback on what's not working so we know where to focus our efforts.
Re: Flutter 2
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally none of those languages tried to provide all of those things. It’s not a failure if that wasn’t the goal to begin with.
That's exactly my point, you fail to understand I said provide, not "goal"
You used the word "failed" which implies they sought something and fell short.