Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#141

Post by duxup » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #102

danpalmer wrote: post #16

This paragraph stood out to me: > The intention here seems to be that aigt is the timestamp when the ID was generated. So if that timestamp deviates from current time by more than 7776000000 milliseconds (90 days) a new ID is going to be generated. However, this implementation is buggy, it will update aigt on every call rather than only when a new ID is generated. So the only scenario where a new ID will be generated…

> If we assume that Xiaomi aren't literally trying to spy for a government Is that even allowed by Chinese law?

I believe they're required to comply if asked. In theory they could have not been asked...

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#142

Post by thoughtstheseus » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #129

buildbot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the implication would be they are spying for China in this case, and therefore as legal as they want it to be.

Right, I meant is it allowed by Chinese law to NOT spy for the government. As I understand it, to be allowed to operate in China as a Chinese company, you are under the obligation to provide any information you collect to the gov't upon request. Is that not the case?

That is the case.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#143

Post by systemvoltage » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

La1n wrote: post #131

systemvoltage wrote: post #125

I am truly appalled at the level of discussion from intellectuals as I consider on HN. Comments here are repeatedly evaluating whether the same thing would apply to US. I expect more from HN. Can we please discuss the problem in isolation and especially the interesting technical bits? Ask yourself, this kind of exploitation is bad regardless of whether any country does something similar. It's anti-user in every possi…

> Can we please discuss the problem in isolation and especially the interesting technical bits? Sure, but you also see this problem doesn't exists in a vacuum. Noted by you bringing up concentration camp numbers in this exact comment section. Maybe you should listen to your own advice?

I think this is a general trend in China based discussions. Problem does exist in a vaccuum. Xiaomi phones have nothing to do with Google or any US based tech.

I am highlighting the absurdity of evaluating US ad-tech to 2 million people in concentration camps.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#144

Post by duxup » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

There's reason to be concerned about all software.

But I agree that software from significantly non free nations is extra concerning.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#145

Post by KoftaBob » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

cwhiz wrote: post #76

chomp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) Xiaomi worth billions of dollars, not 1.4 trillion, but way more than most companies. 2.) People call out Google all. the. time. There's an article here weekly about dumping Google, finding alternatives, praying for antitrust regulation, etc. 3.) We don't commonly call billionaires who live in the middle east, china, and other non-western countries "oligarchs", do you know why? Why are you so upset about Xiaomi g…

>Xiaomi worth billions of dollars, not 1.4 trillion, but way more than most companies. I'm referring to Google with that valuation. >We don't commonly call billionaires who live in the middle east, china, and other non-western countries "oligarchs", do you know why? Propaganda? An oligarch is a rich person with a lot of political influence. Sounds like an average billionaire to me. >People call out Google all. the. t…

"Russian Oligarch" has a more specific meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#146

Post by onethought » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #129

buildbot wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the implication would be they are spying for China in this case, and therefore as legal as they want it to be.

Right, I meant is it allowed by Chinese law to NOT spy for the government. As I understand it, to be allowed to operate in China as a Chinese company, you are under the obligation to provide any information you collect to the gov't upon request. Is that not the case?

Australia has similar laws also.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#147

Post by ampdepolymerase » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #44

serial_dev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, people give US companies way to much slack... But then what am I supposed to do if I'm European? The US and China pretty much covers the mobile market (and what's not covered is still not European).

From a purely pragmatic point of view: If you're European...? Consider that your country is likely either already a five eyes member, or a "five eyes plus" member with a historical record going back 45+ years of intelligence/law enforcement data sharing between the various NATO governments' intelligence agencies. And take a risk calculation, based on what you're doing in your life, if all your metadata and traffic wa…

Considering the current target of deplatforming is the far-right, and given Germany's history specifically, they have a lot of reasons not to trust local hardware and software. The same goes for the Le Pen crowd in France, a somewhat adversarial government on the other side of the globe is often less risky than the status quo across the pond allied to the current French establishment.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#148

Post by ckozlowski » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

firebaze wrote: post #136

I use a Huawei matebook D14 as my personal device. Its primary use is in a WiFi-network (as in 99% of the time). Since I also use MS devices in the same network I log all IPs being accessed from my network ( https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/wire... ) I'll leave the log results of accessed IPs as an exercise to the reader. Hint: no chinese/russian IP addresses are being accessed. I'd guess a lot…

I suspect that your point is that "a Chinese device doesn't mean it's reporting to China." I think it's good not to make this assumption.

That said, I also think it's incredibly naive to think that a collection system wouldn't make use of a local proxy to mask the ultimate destination of the information. It's such a trivial task to do, and provides a host of benefits to obfuscate and sow doubt as to where the data is going and will be ultimately used for.

I'm not assuming that "it must be reporting back to China through a proxy!", but rather, the absence of certain national IPs in that list shouldn't be used to rule out scenarios either. An idea scenario for me would be that the device didn't call back period, or if it did, it did so to endpoints that could be authenticated and audited.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#149

Post by f6v » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

walrus01 wrote: post #7

I truly don't understand, from a security and privacy perspective, why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China. The MSS is no joke. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=china+mss... This is the same reason that Zoom is banned at my workplace and many other partner companies. You've actual…

> why would anyone outside of China would voluntarily choose to run closed-source software from a company that's subject to domestic laws and regulations in China

Because outside US it doesn't really matter whether it's Chinese or American company that has your data.

Re: Are Xiaomi browsers spyware? Yes, they are (2020)

#150

Post by nottorp » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

eptcyka wrote: post #118

aroman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any model to recommend? Not sure if our usecases are the same -- I wanted to find a cheap "lower end of the market" phone to test my mobile game on. Frankly, the poco m3 might even be too powerful for that purpose...

Not a Samsung in my experience. They get slow quick and the bluetooth chip on mine died literally out of nowhere. After 3 months of use, no less. Get a pixel or a oneplus.

I have a Galaxy A21s now. It was just slightly more expensive than the Xiaomi i tried. Not sure how low end it is though.

Mind, it's strictly a development phone. It sits on my desk plugged in, unless I debug those Android apps. No sim card in either. My personal phone is an iPhone XS.