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Griddy Is Shutting Down

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Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#141

Post by yellowapple »

wmf wrote: post #113
nrmitchi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That would have prevented all the negative publicity. Naw, it would have just shifted it to "Electricity Company cuts power to customers during Deadly Cold"

Yeah, when it's 11F outside the choice between a $10,000 bill and shutting off power is a no-win situation.

Not as much of a no-win situation if you've got a (wood) fireplace/furnace, or at least a metal barrel and some trash to burn.

But considering the normal weather in Texas, I ain't too surprised if these things are rarities.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#142

Post by dragonwriter »

fredophile wrote: post #139
tschwimmer wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a differing opinion, which is that paying market rates for electricity is not an innovation. It's a differing business model, and it's arguably a regression in terms of convenience and usability. As a consumer who doesn't work in the power industry, I don't really want to follow the power costs. When I feel cold, I want to turn the heat on. When the dishwasher is full, I want to run it. Having to do an additio…

If I had a gas station that offered gas for a fixed price, that was higher than the average gas price in your area, would you agree to use it exclusively? I don't see how the mental load for griddy is fundamentally different from buying gas at a gas station. When I notice prices are low I make the extra effort to top up my tank even if it means a small inconvenience. Do I drive less if gas prices are higher? No but o…

> If I had a gas station that offered gas for a fixed price, that was higher than the average gas price in your area, would you agree to use it exclusively? I don’t see how the mental load for griddy is fundamentally different from buying gas at a gas station.

Gas purchases are discrete events that, with extremely minimal planning are capable of being purchased from different outlets each time and, usually, time shifted to deal with per-provider or very short term spikes.

Electricity puchases are continuous and the ability to shift sources or time shift is often significantly less without much more significant planning.

Paying a premium for insurance against extreme variation makes some sense in either case, but a lot more in the latter case.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#143

Post by unishark »

nrmitchi wrote: post #100
gruez wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a point to which this is true, and there is a point at which this is no longer true because everyone is already doing everything they already can. Are they? I'm sure if the electricity rate was high enough it'd be worth it to airlift diesel generators across the country to make up the shortfall. Hell, you can probably fly in temp workers from europe/asia to do the necessary fixes.

> it'd be worth it to airlift diesel generators across the country to make up the shortfall. Hell, you can probably fly in temp workers from europe/asia to do the necessary fixes. This event lasted 3 days. You think these private entities had the ability to coordinate airlifting generators (for what it's worth, IIRC fuel was the problem, not generators), and bringing in foreign skilled labor, to address a situation t…

Someone did this in the aftermath of hurricane Rita I believe. They rented a uhaul and bought some generators, and drove halfway across the country to sell them to people the very next day. Then they got charged with price gouging.

Restricting them to a maximum 25 percent markup for all that effort (i.e. making them eat a loss) will obviously prevent people doing it. It's still just another example of the economic rule that price fixing creates shortages.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#144

Post by stonogo »

zackees wrote: post #134
nickysielicki wrote: post #50

This fucking sucks. I'm angry. I have a pretty dark outlook when it comes to global warming, but when you're a griddy customer and you're watching your meter constantly, it just made sense . For a brief moment in time, a green future based on renewables felt realistic. For a brief moment in time, I felt like we might actually be able to meet carbon emission goals. When it cost a lot to make electricity, I used less.…

I just want to point out that Global Warming as an existential threat is more of a political position and less of a scientific one. If the scientific method were applied to real planetary destruction we would rank the use of farmland as #1. If you doubt this, use Google earth and zoom in and notice the absolute scale of destruction farmland has done to the planet. The planet has been 15 degrees hotter than it is toda…

This post is a little insane, but I think the most important delusion to address is the iron claims. For one, in the interest of making this searchable, I'll point out that the oceanographer quoted was in fact John Martin. For the rest, you can look up EIFEX, and then read the May 30, 2008 Convention on Biological Diversity summary, which placed a moratorium on commercial iron-seeding efforts, leaving research on the matter completely unaffected. The concern was that companies were being founded to sell carbon credits based on this possible sequestration mechanism, and it isn't clear what effect this would actually have on ocean biodiversity. Reputable and recent papers in this vein can be found here: https://doi.org/10.3389/fmars.2019.00022 and https://doi.org/10.5194/bg-15-5847-2018

The rest of the post is better off speaking alone.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#145

Post by thayne »

fredophile wrote: post #139
tschwimmer wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a differing opinion, which is that paying market rates for electricity is not an innovation. It's a differing business model, and it's arguably a regression in terms of convenience and usability. As a consumer who doesn't work in the power industry, I don't really want to follow the power costs. When I feel cold, I want to turn the heat on. When the dishwasher is full, I want to run it. Having to do an additio…

If I had a gas station that offered gas for a fixed price, that was higher than the average gas price in your area, would you agree to use it exclusively? I don't see how the mental load for griddy is fundamentally different from buying gas at a gas station. When I notice prices are low I make the extra effort to top up my tank even if it means a small inconvenience. Do I drive less if gas prices are higher? No but o…

First of all, the typical person does not fill a car with gas nearly as often as you use electricity. Secondly, if I had to choose to use one of those gas stations exclusively, I might choose the one with a fixed rate, because:

1. It would make it easier to predict how much I would need to pay for gas each month, and simplify budgeting.

2. I don't need to worry about keeping track of the current price of gas

3. Depending on how my driving schedule matches the variance in prices, it may actually be cheaper for me.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#146

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

Robotbeat wrote: post #77

So, a thing I've been thinking of is that... because most people are on constant rate plans (where there isn't any incentive to cut back during a supply and/or demand crunch), the overall grid demand is a lot more inelastic than it would be if everyone where on a Griddy-like service. When, say, 75% of demand is insensitive to price signals, to get the 25% of demand that is sensitive to respond takes a MUCH bigger pri…

> show some estimate of the daily energy cost

There’s a massive programme in the UK to fit homes with meters that do this.

https://www.smartenergygb.org/en

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#147

Post by panta82 »

aaomidi wrote: post #95
Robotbeat wrote: post #77

So, a thing I've been thinking of is that... because most people are on constant rate plans (where there isn't any incentive to cut back during a supply and/or demand crunch), the overall grid demand is a lot more inelastic than it would be if everyone where on a Griddy-like service. When, say, 75% of demand is insensitive to price signals, to get the 25% of demand that is sensitive to respond takes a MUCH bigger pri…

oh my lord, what is this thinking. People have enough shit to be worried about than to worry about their power ticker going up and down. This is not something we should add as a burden to our citizens. Next I'm going to hear people wanting to short electricity.

Exactly. Electricity should be something that just exists, as an ambiance around you. That you pay a predictable, modest monthly bill, and can than focus on other things. Who needs the drama of free markets there?

Also applies to net neutrality and health-care btw.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#148

Post by unishark »

dragonwriter wrote: post #92
nrmitchi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The customer debt from this can be sold off, but you might be lucky to get a penny-on-the-dollar for it.

Maybe, because it's going to (on average) be hard to collect. But the debt doesn't go away automatically or get reduced, it goes to whoever paid that penny... (Now, if that's John Oliver [0], maybe it also gets forgiven, but that's not the usual case...) [0] https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/john-oliver-buys-15...

Presumably it would only cost a penny because whoever buys it doesn't expect to collect very much and will be motivated to negotiate.

It would be really nice if rather than taking a low amount they sell it directly to the debtors themselves for such a markdown, but I guess they'd think that sets a bad precedent.

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#149

Post by Nemo_bis »

wmf wrote: post #114
aaomidi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh my lord, what is this thinking. People have enough shit to be worried about than to worry about their power ticker going up and down. This is not something we should add as a burden to our citizens. Next I'm going to hear people wanting to short electricity.

Shorting electricity? Hear me out, it's like Robinhood for Enron.

See Matt Levine:

> The people signing contracts to buy Texas electricity at wholesale prices were doing so to economize. In some theoretical sense they accepted higher price volatility in exchange for usually lower prices, but in a much more practical sense they wanted the usually lower prices and couldn’t afford the higher price volatility. And then when prices rose they were wiped out.

> But the Griddy stories suggest that there’s something to it. It turns out to be really easy to accidentally engage in risky financial speculation, to somehow make disastrous bets on spot power markets in your monthly utility bill because it’s simple to sign up. If life is a constant series of high-stakes financial gambles anyway, perhaps it is tempting to choose some of your gambles on purpose.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-02-22/electr...

Re: Griddy Is Shutting Down

#150

Post by fallingknife »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #136
ocschwar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a pretty dark outlook when it comes to global warming, but when you're a griddy customer and you're watching your meter constantly, it just made sense. Yes. However... During the deep freeze, the consumer utilities were bidding up the price of juice with money they did not actually have. Ordinary consumers should not be competing for electricity with buyers who are able to buy on margin. Now we know that thi…

Wait until r/wsb find a way to bet on this!

Enron beat them to the game by like 20 years on this!
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