Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 460 posts

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#141

Post by marshmallow_12 »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #113
jsharf wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has many different population groups. The Haredi population is acting like covid doesn’t exist and has insanely high numbers of cases. I suspect that despite the vaccine working well on your everyday science-trusting Israeli, the Haredi population is throwing off the average significantly. Source: I have family there. Recently the police tried to enforce the lockdown Bnei Brak (a city with a lot of Haredis). T…

downtote. This is anti semitic. A fringe minority rioted. It's far too simplistic to say that covid is simply being ignored.

why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#142

Post by ChrisRR »

ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

Producing medical products is all about managing risk. Whatever you do there's got to be a comprehensive risk assessment of every possible outcome of that action

If a company were to outsource the risk assessment and documentation effort would be huge and potentially open them up for a lot of legal liability if their third party manufacturer causes harm to a patient

For many manufacturers, it's much easier to use your documented in-house manufacturing, supply chain, training, machinery, etc. that you have risk documented up to the eyeballs so that if the product does cause harm, you have enough paperwork to show that you've done your due diligence

If you bring in a third party, it's incredibly difficult to prove that every aspect of their company meets the standards to which you're happy to hold yourself legally responsible.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#143

Post by giantDinosaur »

raphaelj wrote: post #126
mschuster91 wrote: post #69

> He added that the data indicates the Pfizer vaccine, which was developed in partnership with Germany’s BioNTech, is even more effective two weeks or more after the second shot. That's wrong. BioNTech was the developer, Pfizer only was pulled in for manufacturing and clinical tests.

One could argue that clinical trials are part of the development process.

They could, but it's clearly the part which can be replaced by anyone else. Without Pfizer we'd still have BionTech's vaccine, without BionTech we would not.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#144

Post by jacquesm »

rock_artist wrote: post #33
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

To give some balance. Just as I got my second jab and waiting the 10min needed for surveillance. (Tel Aviv, Israel) > Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. It's a mixed situation here. * Israel supposedly paid 3 times more than others per shot (but if it works, it's cheaper than the economy losses). * Israel has free public health care. * All public health care…

> Israel supposedly paid 3 times more than others per shot

More than that even, closer to a factor of 10.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/the-cost-of-vaccinating-is...

$47 / head!

VS closer to $5 in other countries.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#145

Post by BillyTheKing »

ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

first of all, while Pfizer might just be producing at their factory in Belgium, that vaccine is produced in multiple factories in Germany by Biontech, most notably in Marburg (which is going to become Biontech's largest production site)

And secondly, 'just' producing the vaccine isn't the only bottleneck. Currently the biggest bottleneck seem to be two molecules that are produced earlier on in the production-process, and they're scarce.

So adding more production capacity upstream doesn't help if production capacity in factories downstream aren't scaled as well.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#146

Post by corty »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #130
lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

I'd expect that case fatality rate would significantly reduce after 60+ population (which is 90%+ of deaths) is vaccinated. However, even though more than 80% of 60+ got second dose already, case fatality rate is approximately the same. I don't have any good explanation for that.

Death usually comes 2 to 4 weeks after hospitalization which comes 1 to 2 weeks after infection. So the drop in death rates should be visible 2 to 4 weeks after the drop in hospitalizations, and should be less steep initially.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#147

Post by throwaway_Ie8th »

There is a terrifying whistleblower interview from a Berlin elderly home, about the events after the vaccination.

Of 31 patients who were vaccinated 8 died within 14 day, another 11 are in decline.

https://2020news.de/en/whistleblower-from-berlin-nursing-hom...

Similar reports came out of Sweden and other countries, after the first report.

https://2020news.de/auch-in-schweden-sterben-die-alten-mensc...

There are many more reports about either Covid outbreaks right after vaccination, or many deaths in elderly vaccinees. This blog is in German language and lists many.

https://corona-blog.net/tote-im-zusammenhang-mit-der-covid-i...

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#148

Post by hef19898 »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #141
marshmallow_12 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downtote. This is anti semitic. A fringe minority rioted. It's far too simplistic to say that covid is simply being ignored.

why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).

IMHO the downvotes have two reasons:

Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic.

Complaining or commenting about downvotes is not regarded well on HN.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#149

Post by lnsru »

chki wrote: post #137
lnsru wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was time. I work in manufacturing, we plan factories years in advance of manufacturing start. Abandoned biotech factory cost is a drop in the ocean compared to weekly lockdown cost. Why countries failed here? If I would do such crap professionally, shelves of electronics stores would be empty.

There were/are multiple vaccine candidates with different production needs. How do you decide which factories to build? I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations when it comes to these highly sophisticated vaccines. It's not comparable to your average electronics product.

Build 10 damn factories if needed. For biotech it is cheap - hundreds of millions, not billion range as for semiconductor. As a reminder - saving Lufthansa alone consumed €9B: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52801131

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#150

Post by csunbird »

lnsru wrote: post #8
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

You perfectly expressed my feelings. Greetings from Germany!

From Germany here as well, I am extremely sad how the vaccine situation was handled, 3.3 percent of population over two months is an extremely bad metric, especially when the lockdown situation is being lengthened for another month.

By this rate, people won't be vaccinated by 2021.

The dashboard for Germany: https://impfdashboard.de/

Post reply on HN