Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index • Hacker News Board

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#141

Post by joeblau » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

ulzeraj wrote: post #54

Jonnax wrote: post #23

From what I understand bitcoin currently has a $20+ transaction fee with a transaction time takes 60 minutes+ With these issues in addition to the high power consumption, how will Bitcoin become a usable currency?

Off chain through Liquid or Lighting networks.

The funny thing is that there is 117x more Bitcoin on Layer 2 ETH in WBTC[1] than in the lighting network[2].

  $5,793,513,475.00 // WBTC (Bitcoin on Ethereum)
     $49,173,964.59 // Lightning

[1] - https://wbtc.network/dashboard/order-book

[2] - https://1ml.com/statistics

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#142

Post by gnrlst » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

aspic wrote: post #72

IgorPartola wrote: post #10

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have any good resources on how alternative consensus protocols work, like proof of stake and proof of importance? I either see really simplistic explanations or ones that assume a lot of domain knowledge. I also recently saw a crypto coin that claims to be energy efficient, and I don’t quite understand how that’s possible without the possibility of a 50.1% attack.

You're perhaps thinking of https://nano.org ? A brief description of it's Open Representative Voting (ORV) consensus mechanism: "A consensus mechanism unique to Nano which involves accounts delegating their balance as voting weight to Representatives. The Representatives vote themselves on the validity of transactions published to the network using the voting weight delegated to them. These votes are shared with thei…

If only Nano had first-mover advantage! I'm rooting for it though, it's everything BTC should have been.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#143

Post by celticninja » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

progforlyfe wrote: post #126

If I understand the system correctly, the vast majority of bitcoin energy consumption comes from the mining process, which is not strictly required (at least not anymore, with 18+ million BTC now mined and in circulation). I can spin up the bitcoin software on my home PC to participate in the network, sending and receiving bitcoin, and confirming some transactions, and the power consumed would be low. Much less than…

You don't understand the system correctly. Mining bitcoins is also confirming transactions, which is the sending and receiving of bitcoins. Yes you could use your home PC but you would never find a block and so never confirm a transaction.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#144

Post by rich_sasha » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

progforlyfe wrote: post #126

If I understand the system correctly, the vast majority of bitcoin energy consumption comes from the mining process, which is not strictly required (at least not anymore, with 18+ million BTC now mined and in circulation). I can spin up the bitcoin software on my home PC to participate in the network, sending and receiving bitcoin, and confirming some transactions, and the power consumed would be low. Much less than…

Mining Bitcoin is a necessity if you want to transact, so you can't eliminate it. Basically, validating transactions is very costly, so people doing it get rewarded with "mined" bitcoin.

If miners stop mining, you cannot transact in it, at least with the current "proof of work" approach. There are some alternatives, like proof of stake, but they are not mainstream yet.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#145

Post by avaldeso » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #40

I'm tired of this BS about Bitcoin and pollution. So tired that yesterday I wrote this [0]. Of course you might be in complete disagreement with me, but please read it and let me know what you think. Be kind. I am trying to have a good conversation about it, not to impose my view. [0]: https://simon.medium.com/bitcoin-and-pollution-the-definitiv...

>VISA handles $30B/day >Mastercard handles $11B/day >Bitcoin handles $10B/day

Impressed. I didn't know Bitcoin transactions accounted for such huge volume almost as large as MasterCard. I use MC almost every day for almost everything. Is there people like, entirely living with BTC?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#146

Post by BenoitEssiambre » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

panpanna wrote: post #67

Well, we need to build houses with bitcoin miners for heat generation. (Idea stolen from guy on reddit who actually did this)

Although I am not a fan of cryptocurrency popularity (mainly because of the potential to destabilize the macro economy), and I don't know much about this company: https://qarnot.com/en/home/, but I find they have a great name suggestive of thermodynamically optimal computing, Carnot being the father of thermodynamic efficiency. Carnot came up with thermodynamics to optimize steam engines, maybe making him the most steampunk of scientists. Thermodynamically optimizing bits is an echo of that for the cyberpunk age.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#147

Post by jiriknesl » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

dstick wrote: post #7

Question that came to mind after reading the headline: could this become a future reason for governments to criminalise the trading / use of Bitcoin because of negative environmental effects? On the surface it seems the value of Bitcoin is directly tied to its energy consumption and thus environmental harm. I get that Bitcoin itself is decentralised and cannot be banned outright. But could it be neutered in such a wa…

Will anyone criminalise the US army because they use lots of energy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_Sta...

The answer: they might try, but good luck with that.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#148

Post by charcircuit » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #16

EGreg wrote: post #5

And as Bitcoins get more scarce and get adopted by more and more banks and companies as reserves, the value of mining rewards is only going to continue rising, until Bitcoin will consume more electricity than the rest of the world combined. (Around the time it is worth $1.2 Million a coin.) Change my mind. Bitcoin rewards miners in Bitcoin, which is the ultimate deflationary “store of value”, and has the world mindsh…

How does it scale when a block can only contain about 3,000 transactions?

It doesn't. Bitcoins themselves will eventually be migrated of the bitcoin network so that they can be used with the rest of the defi ecosystem.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#149

Post by svrtknst » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

mj4m1n wrote: post #125

daptaq wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how will Bitcoin become a usable currency It won't, it's just a speculative asset.

Money is a speculative asset.

yeah, but also a usable currency

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#150

Post by ruste » Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

progforlyfe wrote: post #126

If I understand the system correctly, the vast majority of bitcoin energy consumption comes from the mining process, which is not strictly required (at least not anymore, with 18+ million BTC now mined and in circulation). I can spin up the bitcoin software on my home PC to participate in the network, sending and receiving bitcoin, and confirming some transactions, and the power consumed would be low. Much less than…

The mining process is _how_ transactions are verified and recorded. Bitcoin doesn't work without it. Mining is a misnomer. You aren't finding bitcoin. It's a reward for solving a problem that proves you participated in helping record transactions for the network.