Live data from Hacker News

SDL Moves to GitHub

discourse.libsdl.org

141–150 of 270 posts

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#141
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like GitHub made a lot of hacking around and software development a lot more seamless too. Before GitHub, the average state of software development seemed a bit more clunky to me.

Github made _Github style_ development seamless--i.e. centralized source control, slick web UI instead of CLI focus, pull requests instead of e-mailed patches. It's one of many different ways to build software though and it's a fallacy to say the entire field of software development didn't move forward until it existed. For someone who has only known Github style development it's true, but for many projects (includin…

> it's a fallacy to say the entire field of software development didn't move forward until it existed

A lot of software development got a lot better. Yes, software development was possible before GitHub, but it lowered the barrier to entry a lot.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#142
post #57

"So in moving it to GitHub, we’re finding that a lot of things are just nicer because a large paid staff of engineers is working on it every day. And I grew up during the heydey of the Free Software Foundation, so I know this is a trap, but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to be a server admin for something that’s held together with scotch tape and prayers when I’m really supposed to be writing OpenGL code." This…

Personally I find this far more worrisome signal of the health of foss ecosystem than the quibbles between elastic and amazon. To me the idea of software "by hackers for hackers" and scratching your own itch has always been one of the key attractions in FOSS ecosystem, but somehow now our itches seem to have outgrown our ability to scratch then. Doing almost anything yourself feels impractical these days. This is als…

> Doing almost anything yourself feels impractical these days.

I would argue this is only the case because we've created an intentional social and skill gap in the industry between server administration and operations work and software development. My experiences, especially more recently, have been shocking in how little the average software developer knows about /very basic/ server administration. I don't have a full picture of why this is, but my gut is that part of the reason is that this type of work has become socially considered to be beneath software developers. They see it as the type of thing you're supposed to outsource, scut work for digital janitors, so they never bother learning it. There's definitely a growing sheen of disrespect in the industry towards those very valuable skills.

The outcome is, yes, it may feel impractical to do things yourself. The reality is, it's probably never been easier to do things yourself. Everything from the widespread availability of low cost enterprise-grade hardware to the plethora of virtualization technologies and associated low-cost hosting platforms means that doing things yourself has never been easier than it is today. Yet it feels so far away because software developers in our current time are no longer the tinkerers they once were, preferring to focus on abstractions over dig down into the dirt of reality.

I think the best way to resolve this challenge is for individual developers to come down from their horses and learn the basics of system administration and actually try this stuff out. You can learn nearly 80% of what there is to know about systems administration and operations with an Ubiquiti router, two Raspberry Pis, and Google given enough time. But so many devs would rather use dubious SaaS tools rather than learn how to host their own Gitlab instance or run their own CI pipeline in their closet.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#143
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has the same niceness of GitHub Debatable. As a previous paid customer, I have never been a fan of GitLab, I've always found it slow, buggy and of confusing design language. YMMV.

I think what was meant is that at least parts of GitLab are FOSS and can be installed locally which in not the case with github.

But installable locally kinda defeats the whole point of this move? And as someone who manages a small gitlab instance, it's not always set it and forget it unfortunately.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#144

"So in moving it to GitHub, we’re finding that a lot of things are just nicer because a large paid staff of engineers is working on it every day. And I grew up during the heydey of the Free Software Foundation, so I know this is a trap, but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to be a server admin for something that’s held together with scotch tape and prayers when I’m really supposed to be writing OpenGL code." This…

I just wish they would invest in the code review aspect of their tools. It’s pretty trash compared to competitors like reviewboard or phabricator (haven’t used Jira or Gitlab recently so can’t comment on those). A big missing feature is the ability to easily upload a stacked diff. Also the whole pull request thing is confusing - why not just use the commit and automatically populate title/summary + figure out which b…

at least on Github, if your branch only has one commit, it will use the commit to automatically populate title and summary. And recently pushed commits show up on top of the repo page with a one-click button to open a PR :) (or you can go to the "branches" page to do this as well)

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#145
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I find this far more worrisome signal of the health of foss ecosystem than the quibbles between elastic and amazon. To me the idea of software "by hackers for hackers" and scratching your own itch has always been one of the key attractions in FOSS ecosystem, but somehow now our itches seem to have outgrown our ability to scratch then. Doing almost anything yourself feels impractical these days. This is als…

> Doing almost anything yourself feels impractical these days. I would argue this is only the case because we've created an intentional social and skill gap in the industry between server administration and operations work and software development. My experiences, especially more recently, have been shocking in how little the average software developer knows about /very basic/ server administration. I don't have a fu…

I don't agree. I spent a significant amount of time playing around with servers and never developed "mastery". I think that server administration has gotten more complex and the tools haven't changed much to help. A simple example is setting up an HTTPS/TLS/SSL endpoint. In the past, you just ran the HTTP server and you were off. Now there's a whole load of extra ceremony to setup a CA and sign your own cert or download a cert and merge it into something else. I think one can easily find many tiny little paper cuts like that and each time you have to remember some special process for how you do it. Unless you're repeatedly doing it or taking good notes it's hard for that knowledge to stick. Not to mention things change over time and across distributions (initv, systemd, etc.)

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just be aware that "boomer rant" creator made one of the most highly successful and used game development libraries in history. I would wager 75% of the games in your steam library use or depend on SDL in some way. Almost certainly most of the games from your childhood that you cherish and love have used SDL too. You should probably be thanking them for creating something that gave you joy at one time, and giving it…

I see where the SDL author is coming from, but is it really that hard to get local GitLab instance running? Or even just using GitLab? I saw other replies about how GitHub has a network of open source developers, but that didn't bother the SDL author before, and I don't see why it is bothering him now.

If open-source organisations like RedoxOS, GNOME, GTK (Who use their own self-hosted instances of GitLab), etc are able to self-host, surely SDL can too, thanks to the new technologies out there that automates this.

When your entire project is sitting on GitHub like nearly everyone else out there and something goes wrong, don't be surprised when one has to tweet at the CEO of GitHub if the repository is falsely flagged for 'some reason' or if your GitHub actions, pull requests and packages are experiencing a degraded service.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22663627

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26066365

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#147

"So in moving it to GitHub, we’re finding that a lot of things are just nicer because a large paid staff of engineers is working on it every day. And I grew up during the heydey of the Free Software Foundation, so I know this is a trap, but I’m tired and don’t have the energy to be a server admin for something that’s held together with scotch tape and prayers when I’m really supposed to be writing OpenGL code." This…

Wonder why they did not pick GitLab since it is significantly better for FOSS ideals and has the same niceness of GitHub

I think they implicitly addressed this:

> So we’re moving to servers we don’t control, which does make me nervous, but the argument goes like this: Microsoft owns GitHub, and it’s highly unlikely Microsoft is going to go bankrupt anytime soon. If Microsoft pulls the plug on GitHub, it’s not just SDL that would be in trouble, it would be the entire open source ecosystem, so interested parties would move fast to help you migrate to somewhere else…right?

Gitlab Inc. is dramatically more likely to go out of business that Microsoft, and Gitlab generally is dramatically more likely to have significant outages than Github.

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but GitHub came early and made the hosting easy. There was no similar offering for hg that early on.

Github wasn't created until 2008, and in those early days there were big limits on hosting (very limited number of repos per user, even public ones). The everything free, everything easy all you can eat buffet that you see on Github today is a much more recent change. Back in '05 almost everything OSS was on source forge and Google Code, both of which offered super easy hosting, discussions, etc.

Sourceforge was already in demise, it was slow etc. when was it that they started adding malware? Don't remember ... i however remember Chris Wnastrath travelling to europe even for relatively small developer events and sponsoring the beer events. Quite a good marketing ...

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#149
It seems libsdl2 does not support framebuffer anymore, which is critical for embedded devices(no gpu or 3D acceleration i.e. opengl needed there)

Re: SDL Moves to GitHub

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One advantage of mercurial is that it is less tied to a specific file format like git is. It is much easier to make a mercurial backend for a system which actually stores the code in a different way (for example a distributed data store).

Isn’t this also possible with Git, at least for remotes? There are a number of different Git implementations besides the main one.

There are multiple implementations, but the contents of the .git directory are essentially the API, which tightly constrains how it can be implemented.
Post reply on HN