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Vue Native (2018)

vue-native.io

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Re: Vue Native (2018)

#141

Post by c-smile »

eingaeKaiy8ujie wrote: post #109
rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

Yes, we need GUI abstractions that compile to HTML/CSS and native platforms, not doing it the other way around.

Just in case: Sciter (https://sciter.com) and Sciter.JS (https://github.com/c-smile/sciter-js-sdk) allow to build native UI applications with HTML/CSS extended by native languages (C, C++, Rust, Go, etc.)

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#142

Post by asiachick »

franklampard wrote: post #121
rkangel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you say this with a "barely competent" level of expertise? I get that, and that's why I declared it. I have two reasons why I think the opinion is still valid: I'm not completely incompetent. I have produced useful web frontend work. After having spent more time on web technologies than a lot of others I still find it to be slower and harder. This point is about learning - I have done some learning in both…

I have a hard time understanding why the cost of learning web dev (CSS/html) is a sunk cost. It’s reaping so much benefit that these experts can easily make mobile apps without learning another way to describe UI.

I'm agree with you but I gotta say, I have yet to find the perfect tutorial that say "follow these N steps and you'll always get what you expect".

For me, the common places things break are, setting up a flexbox and not having the content scale to fit.

Trying to make an app like layout (so the page itself doesn't scroll though some content in various areas might) and again, trying to get various flexbox areas to either fit their content or get the content to fit its area without expanding the page past the window size (note: if you use overflow: hidden you failed)

In any case I'm not a UI/UX designer so I don't do it daily, therefore when I do need to do it it's always a bunch of frustrating trial and error.

That said, I do think there are a class of designers that also don't know these answers. They just know a few frameworks that handle all of this for them.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#143

Post by c-smile »

nolok wrote: post #93
rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

I just don't understand what happened to classical RAD from the late 90s early 00s. OK web was out of touch because no one really uses the "standard gui" anymore, even something as simple as a button has different look and behavior on every website. But mobile app should be prime targets for it, and theming is a well understood concept for it too. So why do we not have a proper rad tool (drag and drop my button where…

> classical RAD from the late 90s early 00s.

RAD, a.k.a. UI-nailed-down-to-pixel-grid approach, has died immediately after we've switched from 640x480 pixel screens to variety of display and devices.

If in doubts think about Adaptive and Responsive Designs ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_web_design ) in regards of RAD.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#144

Post by discreteevent »

franklampard wrote: post #121
rkangel wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you say this with a "barely competent" level of expertise? I get that, and that's why I declared it. I have two reasons why I think the opinion is still valid: I'm not completely incompetent. I have produced useful web frontend work. After having spent more time on web technologies than a lot of others I still find it to be slower and harder. This point is about learning - I have done some learning in both…

I have a hard time understanding why the cost of learning web dev (CSS/html) is a sunk cost. It’s reaping so much benefit that these experts can easily make mobile apps without learning another way to describe UI.

It is a sunk cost for them. They literally cannot get it back. But for somebody new why should they have to pay this cost if there are many less expensive ways to describe a UI. The lowest common denominator is now invading everything including native. This often happens but it is regrettable.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#145

Post by kall »

c-smile wrote: post #134
rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

> HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. You did confuse cause with effect. In the first place Web accepted HTML/CSS/JS for the good reason - as a classic implementation of "Separation of Concerns" principle. See: 1. HTML defines semantic structure of UI - DOM tree. 2. JS, as language-behind-the-UI, handles users events and updates DOM tree and its state. 3. CSS define…

I think they adopted them for good reason and they are good at what they are made for: web pages. It shines in situations where content, behaviour and presentation are seperate concerns.

A good example is a CMS/wordpress (which as we know makes up a third of the internet or something): Editors are concerned with content, themes are concerned with presentation, plugins are concerned with behaviour.

Applications, especially desktop applications, are nothing like that. Seperations of concerns gains you very little there. If it does, its a different separation like M-V-C. I think all the successful user interface things introduced in the last few years are going for an all in one code approach for good reason: SwiftUI, Flutter, Jetpack Compose, React Native... I may be a little mobile focused?

The options that ios/mac os/android offered for a while to create UI structure seperate from code where not very popular with developers which often preferred to construct and modify the entire UI tree with code "manually".

What‘s the state of the art in windows and linux UI programming?

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#146

Post by IgorPartola »

The_rationalist wrote: post #78
IgorPartola wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ionic screwed me like a deck screw with their update path being more of a secret way into Mordor. Perfectly good app that can’t be compiled anymore without a full rewrite in what is effectively a completely different framework.

You had to upgrade from which version to which one?

I initially used it with version 1/Angular 1.x. Then when Angular 2 was basically a complete rewrite from scratch Ionic did the same. For a little bit I was still able to compile the code but quickly their tools became unavailable and unusable.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#147

Post by AlwaysRock »

Maybe I just wasnt giving it my full devotion but I spent a day or two just trying to get Vue Native up and running late last year and no success. Maybe if I had more Reactive Native knowledge it would have been easier.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#148

Post by c-smile »

init0 wrote: post #35

[svelte-native ain't far?]

Svelte compilations work in Sciter.JS ( https://github.com/c-smile/sciter-js-sdk ) as they are.

And Sciter.JS is an embeddable UI engine for native applications so you probably don't need dedicated svelte-native at all.

For that matter Sciter.JS already allows to build native Mithril.JS and PReact.JS applications too.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#149

Post by kall »

nolok wrote: post #93
rkangel wrote: post #88

Is anyone else sad that we have adopted HTML/CSS as the universal lingua franca for describing views? I understand why (or at least I believe I do): HTML/CSS is an inevitable part of the ecosystem because the web is an important target. A lot of devs will know at least some, and your organisation may already have loads of them because you also need to target the web. Maybe you even already have some view code written…

I just don't understand what happened to classical RAD from the late 90s early 00s. OK web was out of touch because no one really uses the "standard gui" anymore, even something as simple as a button has different look and behavior on every website. But mobile app should be prime targets for it, and theming is a well understood concept for it too. So why do we not have a proper rad tool (drag and drop my button where…

For iOS and macOS there is Interface Builder that is somewhat like that. It seems to have fallen out of favour. I‘m not really sure why but I know I prefer developing code based UI as well.

Re: Vue Native (2018)

#150

Post by agumonkey »

pjmlp wrote: post #140
agumonkey wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't C a sweet spot of portability and minimalism ? no matter the defects .. the previous qualities seemed to matter more. I mean there were attempts at replacing C but nothing came close to remove it right ?

C only got there, because UNIX just like the Browser did to JavaScript, has placed it everywhere. This happened only because Bell Labs/AT&T were forbidden to sell UNIX, hence its source code spread across the industry, with a symbolic price that made it by comparison with other OS vendors feel almost as quite cheap beer. During the 80's and early 90's, C only mattered in universities and companies that had access to…

We're all well aware of the unix/c coupling. What I'm saying is that for low level memory mangling and primitive operations over the set of register based machines.. you don't get any benefits from using another language it seems. I.. just a dude but some people doing HPC said that you can even reach FORTRAN speed on numerics if you fiddle with the right keywords to avoid aliasing.

Again I'm not a C fan.. but what would pascal or basic give you that is a critical factor in making a better system with it ? modula I can't say. Asm is too coupled to the underlying cpu it's out of the window already.

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