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Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#141

Post by jedberg »

I sympathize with the folks who want to unionize and I wish them luck, but I suspect this will quickly backfire on them.

Of all the companies in the world, the one I would be most worried about automating away human jobs would be Amazon. If this warehouse unionizes, I suspect it will quickly become their number one automation test site. As the cost of labor goes up and the cost of automation goes down, they'll have a higher incentive to do this quickly.

Just look at what they announced during re:invent this year. The AWS Panorama was basically designed to replace people in Amazon warehouses. The Amazon Go store was basically a test bed to ~~get rid of the already~~ prevent unionized labor at Whole Foods.

I wish the workers luck, but in the long term, they're probably just hastening their replacement by increasing their own costs to the company.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#142

Post by pmyteh »

klmadfejno wrote: post #46
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard a major difference is that in Europe you generally have a choice of multiple competing unions, vs. the US where you're generally in or you're out. The competition forces the unions to remain focused on the desires of the general population, otherwise they just lose membership.

Not really, at least in the UK. You can join any union that will have you, and there are several big 'general' unions. But most employers will only recognise a single union (if that) per group of workers.

So, if you're an academic like me, you can join the University and College Union, and there will be a local organisation, probably a collective bargaining agreement with the university, and so on. Or join a different union and get no local representation and only 'central office' services. There are some places with multiple recognition (when I worked in local government Unison, GMB and the T&G were all recognised, with membership strengths in different parts of the council) but it's often just one. And that's if you're lucky: many employers recognise no unions.

Of course, the UK also doesn't have the closed shop (union membership is strictly optional) so there is a competition between member and not-member that keeps some pressure on the union organisation. And each European country has its own traditions of union organisation and different working cultures, so this probably doesn't extend outside of Britain.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#143

Post by scsilver »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #7

To be honest I find it much more likely Amazon would just shut down the Bessemer, Alabama warehouse, terminate the employment of any workers who joined the union, and open a new warehouse within a 50 mile radius of the current one. edit: since there are labor law repercussions to terminate the unionized workers, they'd likely just shut down the plant in its entirety.

Im not sure they have the political will to do that right now. They are under the federal and social microscope, during a new bipartisan wave of antitrust sentiment.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#144

Post by txsoftwaredev »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #110
sergiotapia wrote: post #60

Is it going to be a proper union or a political tool for alt-left ideals (like Google's recent unionization attempt)?

I don't know what the alt-left is, but I imagine these extremely exploited workers are going to focus on their terrible working conditions.

How are they exploited? Is amazon the only company they are able to work at?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#145

Post by jimbob45 »

simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

Google didn’t unionize. Their “union” isn’t federally certified and they have current membership of 700/250000 workers. Google is under no obligation to work with them on anything. In the future, they could get a majority of workers agree to have a union represent them but that’s not the case at this time. What the Google union did was obstruct real unionization efforts at Google.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/googles-fake-union-insults-...

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#146

Post by Aunche »

dxdm wrote: post #107
Aunche wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers and police officers are public servants. If they want to bargain, they should be negotiating with the public, not government officials. Otherwise, it's just collusion.

If not with government officials, i.e. the executive part of the system taking care of public concerns, how should they negotiate with "the public"?

Any negotiated increase in salary or pensions should require a vote unless if there is a budget surplus. Municipalities are incurring way too much debt without taxpayer knowledge, let alone approval.

Government workers already have a lot of job security, so I don't think unions should be allowed to affect that.

I do think that public servants have a right to negotiate safety and other technical issues without public approval.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#147

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

txsoftwaredev wrote: post #123

Amazon is a private company. They should be able to stop unionization if they so choose.

Why should a private company be able to break the law? Why should workers give up rights that thousands of us died for?

This is a frankly disgusting sentiment.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#148

Post by bluGill »

ATsch wrote: post #135
random5634 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propaganda unfortunately also comes from folks direct experience with unions. In the US, most unions are public sector. So folks see that Police unions may protect bad apples via union. Teachers unions may care more about teachers including bad ones then teaching kids. We had a famously terrible teacher at my school - unfirable - as kids we thought it was hilarious. As a parent now - not so cool. Non unionized sc…

I totally agree with your concerns about people being kept in their job for unjustified reasons. I think it's something we've all had experience with. At my first job, I had a horrible boss. A friend tried to speak up against him and was promptly fired. Turns out he was a relative of the CEO and was thus unfireable. Just a few weeks ago I also spoke to someone who told his experience of reporting someone for sexual h…

If sexual harassment really exists a lawyer will be glad to help. Companies that don't take care of it end up in big trouble - to your lawyers advantage.

Sexual harassment is one of several things that the legal system takes seriously.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#149

Post by robert_foss »

jedberg wrote: post #141

I sympathize with the folks who want to unionize and I wish them luck, but I suspect this will quickly backfire on them. Of all the companies in the world, the one I would be most worried about automating away human jobs would be Amazon. If this warehouse unionizes, I suspect it will quickly become their number one automation test site. As the cost of labor goes up and the cost of automation goes down, they'll have a…

If they could replace all humans they already would have. They still employ people in the EU, so it can't be that close.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#150

Post by asdff »

pmoriarty wrote: post #104
random5634 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The propaganda unfortunately also comes from folks direct experience with unions. In the US, most unions are public sector. So folks see that Police unions may protect bad apples via union. Teachers unions may care more about teachers including bad ones then teaching kids. We had a famously terrible teacher at my school - unfirable - as kids we thought it was hilarious. As a parent now - not so cool. Non unionized sc…

The problem is when anecdotes about isolated abuses are used to reject unions outright rather than looking at whether unions as a whole would benefit society. You could argue from personal experience that you went to a bad school therefore all schools are bad, or you had a bad experience with therefore all people of that sort are bad. It's just not very convincing.

For every anecdote of an isolated case of union abuse, there are probably hundreds of unheard cases of corporations abusing their workers. But that doesn't matter for most people, simplistic logic says therefore all unions are bad and capable of corruption, and ignoring that most of the time, the status quo is far, far more exploitative for the average worker. Once again, perfect becomes the enemy of good, and conditions do not improve.
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