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Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

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Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#141

Post by FalconSensei »

izacus wrote: post #48
cesarb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Signal already have backup? IIRC, when enabled it once per day saves all messages (encrypted with a backup key, which you have to write down somewhere) to /sdcard/Signal, and you can then use Syncthing or something similar to copy it to a new phone. If you put that /sdcard/Signal folder there before starting Signal for the first time, it'll ask to restore from that backup. WhatsApp has an identical local back…

It's a backup which demands that you WRITE down a very long numeric code, then manually copy files off and then hope your family doesn't lose all of it. It's a horrible user hostile process which isn't even implemented for iOS.

Considering my wife keeps resetting her passwords on websites because she just forgets it, I have to agree this is not usable

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#142

Post by FalconSensei »

tony101 wrote: post #121
parliament32 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want this? You don't save history for other types of chats, like in person conversations or phone calls (even though you could, with your phone recording in your pocket or call recorder apps). If something important comes up, like an address or recipe, copy/paste it into your notes app. Otherwise set your messages to expire after a month and be done with it. I used to be a message-hoarder too, but I rec…

Exactly. Keeping message history is a liability. There is no need to keep all old messages beyond one week. If there is something specific worth saving, there are apps for taking/pasting notes.

> There is no need to keep all old messages beyond one week.

Based on what use case? Many times I searched old personal and group chats, to find what I wanted in a message from 1 year before

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#143

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

simias wrote: post #99
madeofpalk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they think you are wrong - they just don't value it themselves personally, and lack empathy for their users who have different values.

Signal's devs, for better or worse, are very opinionated. If you don't do it moxie's way then you're doing it wrong. I was once shut down on HN by the Signal posse because I said that I'd like to have a Signal client library that I could use to write my own custom lightweight client. Apparently I'm not worthy and clearly incapable of writing secure code. Meanwhile I have to use that crappy, gigantic official electron…

> I'd like to have a Signal client library that I could use to write my own custom lightweight client.

You already have that. Signal-cli is based on a standalone Java library distributed as part of the Signal codebase. Of course it is an unofficial client and the Signal team would really prefer you not use it, but if the Signal-cli team can develop something from that library, you probably could too.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#144

Post by AnonC »

FreakyT wrote: post #25
_l4jh wrote: post #19

I have been using Signal for two years now and I love it. However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. Just build an encrypted blob and zip it up and pop it on my iCloud or Google Drive or leave it local and let me deal with it but I need something .…

Exactly! The lack of this feature is completely baffling.

It won’t be baffling but appalling to see how the Signal team (moxie in particular) have responded to requests for a backup and restore feature. They’re user hostile and prefer to do things their way. On iOS, Signal has always prohibited its data from being backed up with iTunes (doesn’t matter whether your iTunes backup is encrypted and protected by a password or not). Even now there’s only a recent “transfer data” feature from one phone to another in real time.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#145

Post by pgalvin »

officeplant wrote: post #44
davemtl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal has a method to backup chats, at least on Android. It's under Settings > Chats and media > Chat backup. Baffling if this feature isn't available on iPhone.

Main problem being you don't have access to the file structure on an iphone. So you can't simply drop a backed up folder in there like you can on Android. You are stuck needing the previous device.

iOS has had a Files app for years, locally. You could easily export an encrypted .zip from Signal and save it locally, just like how Signal on Android saves it to your internal storage.

For some reason, the Signal devs won’t even acknowledge this possibility and continue to say “we can’t enable iCloud backup” - which is fair enough, but nobody is asking for that and they’re simply putting their fingers in their ears.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#146

Post by Y-bar »

Forbo wrote: post #36
davemtl wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal has a method to backup chats, at least on Android. It's under Settings > Chats and media > Chat backup. Baffling if this feature isn't available on iPhone.

As mentioned elsewhere in the discussion they now provide a way to migrate data from one iPhone to a another, but that's assuming that you have the old device still.

I have an old device which I have saved because the messages on it are emotionally important to me, but that device is too old to transfer to my new device.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#147

Post by k1t »

gshulegaard wrote: post #103
izacus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However I really, really hope they can work on a good backup and restore process as losing my message history because I have to reinstall the app on my desktop[1] or have to reset my phone is a horrible experience. I've tried to report bugs and talk to developers about this but there's one fundamental problem here - the Signal team fundamentally does not value chat history the same way a lot of people do. They thin…

I think it's astute of you to point out that the Signal developers do not value chat history the same way many people do, but I am not sure I track with this: > It's not a technical issue - they just think you're wrong when you want to keep your conversations. as much. When you are treating security as a number one priority I think there are a lot of things that become technical issues which aren't typically. Transfe…

> For example, in the classic case when a user adds a new device and wants history to be available on both you can't let the devices controlled by one person simply sync with one another.

> To do so would be making a security concession to the other members of the chat in that they no longer verify every destination of their message.

You can't "verify every destination" with Signal anyway. Maybe the message is going to my phone, maybe it's going to my phone and my desktop - the sender can't tell.

Sure, if you are trying to add an entirely new recipient to a conversation, then of course you can't send them the entire conversation history - but nobody is asking for that.

What people want is the ability to add a new device for an existing recipient, and have the history sync across.

With Signal I can already add a new device and continue existing conversations without the other participants being notified that I've added a new device. Adding conversation history doesn't diminish anything from a security perspective.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#148

Post by dopu »

sim_card_map wrote: post #129

Signal is not an open alternative. It's not federated, but most importantly, they don't allow 3rd party clients: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... So you are stuck with their Electron junk without any options. Matrix should be promoted as an open alternative instead.

Are these things so important that we should give up the easier maintainability (and potentially, security) that comes from centralization and the standardization of user clients? I absolutely think projects like Matrix are worthwhile, but it seems foolish to me to argue that there are no benefits that come from doing things the way Signal does. Besides, as sexy as decentralization is, in the wild it is not really practiced. Mastodon is decentralized, but last I heard ~50% of users were on 3 nodes [0]. I'm assuming it's a similar situation for Matrix.

[0]: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/the-federation-fallacy.html

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#149

Post by AnonC »

sjaak wrote: post #6
FreakyT wrote: post #5

The issue with Signal that annoys me most is the complete lack of any meaningful backup/export on iOS. I lost my entire chat history when I got a new phone because their bizarre "proximity based" solution failed.

Why is keeping a chat history important? I don't take notes of IRL conversation I have, they're ephemeral. Not trolling, honestly curious :-)

Do you take photos and keep those around or you just don’t use cameras? If you do preserve photos, why? Before cameras were invented, most people (who couldn’t paint or pay a painter) had experiences and events only in their memories. You could follow that for photos and videos too. Or get a camera that shows the photo you took for a few seconds and then erase it permanently.

I’m not trolling either. The point is not whether you value something to look back on in the future or not. It’s that a lot of people value that and would use a service that aligns with those needs. Chats can also have photos and videos that someone else shared. It’s not easy or clear to many people that they should save or offload those from an (unreliable) chat app if they want to look back at those later.

Re: Signal WhatsApp Chats Import

#150

Post by benhurmarcel »

tony101 wrote: post #121
parliament32 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want this? You don't save history for other types of chats, like in person conversations or phone calls (even though you could, with your phone recording in your pocket or call recorder apps). If something important comes up, like an address or recipe, copy/paste it into your notes app. Otherwise set your messages to expire after a month and be done with it. I used to be a message-hoarder too, but I rec…

Exactly. Keeping message history is a liability. There is no need to keep all old messages beyond one week. If there is something specific worth saving, there are apps for taking/pasting notes.

Well for example here Whatsapp is the main communication medium with your landlord. It's useful to keep that full communication history in case any disagreement comes up.
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