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Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#141

Post by J-dawg »

unethical_ban wrote: post #97
J-dawg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we not pretend that electric cars don't pollute the planet? To be clear, I am a big fan of electric cars. But this seems to have become another one of those things that has become so polarised you're not even allowed to express healthy skepticism.

ICE vehicles have very little headroom for "environmental growth" whereas electric seems to have very high levels of headroom. Batteries from more common elements, better recycling, more renewable energy to charge them. As much as I love big trucks, there is no "zero carbon diesel". So it isn't pretending, they really are a lot better for the planet in the mid-term and forward.

I agree with most of what you said.

Also, the fact that EVs produce almost zero local pollution makes them incredibly compelling. So much so that I'd still be in favour of them even if they produced the same amount of CO2 overall. Just to make it clear which "team" I am on.

I'm just pointing out that the EV debate seems to have become one of those things where people pick a side and then stop accepting any nuance.

The comment I originally replied to was making the typical glib lazy assertion that ICE cars are some terrible medieval technology and EVs are all sunshine and rainbows. It's more complicated than that.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#142

Post by orange_tee »

eloeffler wrote: post #70

This includes hybrids. It's really questionable to incentivize hybrid vehicles and selling it as a electrified success. Discussions about the efficiency/environmental impact/... of combustion v.s. electric aside, it's obvious that driving a huge battery around will burn more fuel. I think this can only be seen as a success for electrified motors if it's proven that they're actually being used.

Battery manufacturing emits a lot of CO2, to the point that out of the factory, an EV is less green than an ICEV, and it takes about 2 to 3 years of commuting just to catch up. Now with a plug-in hybrid assuming it has half of the battery capacity, it could very well be that the PHEV is actually greener than an BEV. A smaller battery that is enough 90% of the time + an ICE to make up for that 10% could very well be greener than a BEV with twice the battery capacity.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#143

Post by CogitoCogito »

lldbg wrote: post #2

Sell oil, buy electric cars. Is this the definition of hypocrisy? At least it is better than the alternative, sell oil and buy fossile fuel cars. Edit: I would like to rephrase the last sentence as "At least it is better than _an_ alternative, which is to sell oil and buy fossile fuel cars." which is a fairer categorisation of the problem space and less consumerist.

I'm irritated by the downvotes you've received. It clearly _is_ hypocrisy.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#144

Post by epistasis »

gamblor956 wrote: post #132
toomuchtodo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sour grapes. No one was racing to buy Leafs and Bolts, nor EVs with no DC fast charging network. People wanted a great car that happened to be electric, not anemic golf carts.

Leafs and Bolts were sold out (or leased out) almost everywhere they were available before the Model 3 was released. The problem was that they never made enough of them because their respective manufacturers didn't believe the market was very large, largely because battery technology when they were first released simply wasn't as good as it is now.

These awful manufacturers have also actively sandbagged their designs, making them less desirable and less normal, in an attempt to limit their appeal.

Car manufacturers are masters of marketing. Their choices in how they market these cars are very intentional.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#145

Post by mhh__ »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #137
mhh__ wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now find me a tesla for £7k like I can buy a leaf for used.

The low price is an indicator of the low desirability.

It's sold 500k units which is more than most Tesla's have, it's a different product for a different market. Think again.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#146

Post by dschuler »

kingnothing wrote: post #117
aphextron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet? That's not my argument. It would be a good thing if all governments outlawed ICE consumer vehicles. However, headlines like this are portraying Norway as some kind of progressive utopia where everyone just wants to drive EVs. Obviously you can make people do whatever you want with aggressive enough tax poli…

ICE cars rely on subsidies, why shouldn't EVs? The US federal government subsidizes $20B per year towards fossil fuels across oil, gas, and coal. The EU subsidizes €55B per year towards fossil fuels. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

Many of these are regular business expense deductions like depletion and foreign tax credits. They’re not specific to carbon energy industries and aren’t subsidies per se.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#147

Post by Consultant32452 »

kingnothing wrote: post #117
aphextron wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we allow a free market to continue producing vehicles that contribute to the degradation of the planet? That's not my argument. It would be a good thing if all governments outlawed ICE consumer vehicles. However, headlines like this are portraying Norway as some kind of progressive utopia where everyone just wants to drive EVs. Obviously you can make people do whatever you want with aggressive enough tax poli…

ICE cars rely on subsidies, why shouldn't EVs? The US federal government subsidizes $20B per year towards fossil fuels across oil, gas, and coal. The EU subsidizes €55B per year towards fossil fuels. https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subs...

What's the net tax/subsidies on fossil fuels?

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#149

Post by npx13 »

WoodenChair wrote: post #21
anthony_r wrote: post #6

BTW, as of late Tesla isn't at all the big leader over there: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare

It seems like Volkswagen is making some real inroads in the EV market based on that data. Is this correct? What has fueled it—is there a particular model?

Yes it’s correct. VW investing very heavily in MEB platform. ID3 is great fun to drive but VW have much to do on software side.

Re: Electric cars make up 54% of cars sold in Norway in 2020

#150

Post by arve0 »

1stcity3rdcoast wrote: post #127
arve0 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kia niro comes out the same price, electric sells the most. Hybrid 405k NOK [0] Electric 415k NOK [1] 0: https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&loc... 1: https://www.kia.com/api/bin/docDownload?program=brochure&loc...

There are significant subsidies and schemes that the Norwegian government offers that reduces the total purchase price of the electric.

Yes, that is correct. But the argument is, «electric cheaper -> sells more». My argument is that the people of Norway wants electric, when priced the same. Electric is the new shiny that most people in Norway want.
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