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UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

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Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#141

Post by anonunivgrad »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #34
anonunivgrad wrote: post #12

A great day for the UK, able to now chart their own path instead of obediently marching along to the neoliberal EU apparatus. The big question is whether they will do anything worthwhile with their newfound freedom.

Remain high on the inequality index, I assume. The UK got destroyed by Thatcher, and hasn't recovered since. > “She destroyed too many good things in society, and created too many bad ones, then left a social and moral vacuum in which the selfishly rich and unimaginatively fortunate could too easily destroy still more of what they don't need and can't see that everyone else does need,” said author Emma Darwin. https:…

Thatcher wasn’t perfect, but England was an economic basket case before her premiership. Visceral Thatcher hate is a meme for nonthinking people.

The great irony is that one of the most significant effects of the EU has been to replicate many of her reforms across the continent. But the europhiles still reflexively hate her.

And why should I or anyone else care about what a fiction author thinks?

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#142

Post by ben_w »

hndudette wrote: post #95
matthewmacleod wrote: post #46

Little to celebrate here. The main outcome is that it’s now going to be much more of a pain in the arse to perform lots of basic functions that we took for granted. There is now a bunch more red tape involved involved in buying or selling goods or services to other European counties. It’s harder and more expensive to move for work or education, both to and from the UK. The UK now has a customs border inside it’s own…

Wouldn't it be better to replace the EU with an expansive multilateral free trade treaty that encompasses the same states? Why do we need an additional layer of government?

Without a layer of government, the free trade agreement can’t adapt itself to a changing world. One of the bigger criticisms of the EU is that it adapts too slowly, so this would definitely be the opposite of an improvement.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#143

Post by noncoml »

runarberg wrote: post #125
rhexs wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does wanting one’s own country to focus on its citizens first make one a xenophobe?

Short answer yes. EDIT longer answer: You live in a society of people, the people that you interact with daily are people just like you. Some of them might be immigrants and some of them might have a foreign citizenship. That does not make them any lesser. They pay taxes to the same government as you, they abide by the same rules as you. If they brake the law, they have to answer for it just like you. The only reason…

Not to mention that all the complaints about "putting strain on NHS" were started by Murdoch's Sun.

From my experience:

1. I have a lot of friends from all over the world, that live in the UK. They have been there since their late 20's, make far more money than the median, and hence contributed a lot of money to NHS

2. I was living in UK during the Polish influx, and what I observed was that British people would prefer to use Polish builders as they were doing better work and got things done faster. My landlord was complaining that she was unable to book her favorite Polish builder for some work in the house.

Not saying that this is always the case and there weren't people who arrived to UK to take advantage of the better social services, but that's what my experience was, and maybe it's because of the specific bubble I live in.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#144

Post by gorgonzola88 »

alastor2020 wrote: post #128
dmje wrote: post #15

Yay. Now we're free. Oh wait, no, it's just that absolutely everything got harder, more expensive, more nationalistic, more pathetic and sad. It's all incredibly depressing. Here's hoping our kids manage to vote us back in as soon as those Tory f's are out.

- Tory f's are out Is that language really necessary? Such divisive language doesn't help the debate at all. As mentioned below, it's also totally incorrect. Labour heartlands voted massively for leave. Labour and Tories went into the election saying they would honour the referendum vote. Tories cleaned up an 80 seat majority in December 2019 winning many Labour seats campaigning on the goal to get Brexit done. Brexi…

Helicoptering others who maybe haven’t processed (perhaps they’re losing more relative to you?) and suggesting a stiff upper lip is pompous Brit af

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#145

Post by shirro »

throwaway35345 wrote: post #126
shirro wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone wants trade with everyone to their benefit. We also want to be friends and play cricket. But there is no discussion of the other things related to CANZUK in Australia and NZ. We don't want open borders with the UK or to roll back the clock to the empire. Almost everything to do with CANZUK is a fantasy used to deflect from the very real problems associated with leaving the EU.

> Everyone wants trade with everyone to their benefit. We also want to be friends and play cricket. Wait wait wait a second ago you said they 'want nothing to do with the UK', now you're saying they want to trade, and play sports? Clearly not 'nothing to do' is it?

We don't want anything to do with them in the context of an EU replacement including open borders or any form of of political or monetary union. The UK is a part of our history and we will always have ties. I don't think there is any will to give them preferential treatment over other trading partners. We are looking out for ourselves and any mistakes the UK makes they are going to have to wear like adults.

We are not getting the Empire band back together. I know modern conservatives have lost the plot but we can't turn back time like that. CANZUK as popularly described is a complete fantasy.

The reality is as sovereign nations trying to have influence in our own regions, often with countries with their own experiences of colonialism, any signs of subservience to an ex-colonial power is far more of a hindrance than a help.

I do support stronger ties between Canada, Australia and NZ though.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#146

Post by hndudette2 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #121
hndudette wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be better to replace the EU with an expansive multilateral free trade treaty that encompasses the same states? Why do we need an additional layer of government?

Hard to answer that without defining what “better” means. It’s not clear what difference you would imagine between “an expansive multilateral free trade treaty” and the EU as it stands. The European single market is essentially the largest international free trade agreement, going far further and deeper than any other by eliminating as many barriers to both trade and individual freedom between states. In order to sup…

EU's stated objectives go far beyond just facilitating free trade, with most of their budget allocated to unrelated projects and goals. To the extent that the EU does facilitate free trade, which is indeed one of its goals, I have no objection, but I believe we can do away with a huge amount of big government/globalist excess and just go for an explicit multilateral FTA with as little bureaucratic overhead as necessary to enact such a treaty. That would look distinctly different to the extant EU.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#147

Post by ghufran_syed »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #113
wincy wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People on Hacker News, being in general the knowledge workers and (at least in our minds) the intelligentsia that we are, have particular disdain for democracies doing things they disagree with. I remember the day after Brexit passed my high school friend who was then working on her PhD in international theory asking how the government could revert such a decision. It seemed like the most out of touch ivory tower thi…

It was a nonbinding referendum. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask why important policy decisions are being made by a simple majority of the voting public.

Didn’t the conservative party win a general election in 2015 in which the referendum was a manifesto pledge? So the conservatives promised a referendum and won that election - that seems like “the consent of the governed”, doesn’t it? And the british public could have voted for labour in 2017 or 2019 if they wanted a softer stance on Brexit, but they didn’t, and the Conservatives won both those elections too, albeit with a minority government from the 2017 election. Maybe that means something, in terms of what the british electorate thinks?

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#148

Post by string »

LatteLazy wrote: post #66

Such a waste. A once great nation dragged into obscurity by OAPs, handout addicted farmers and racists.

The UK has consistently been ranked one of the least racist countries in Europe, both pre and post referendum.

Do you know what stokes division? Demonstrably false narratives and accusing vast swathes of people who hold myriad views on an immensely complicated subject of racism. Whatever makes you feel better, I suppose.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#149

Post by rsynnott »

rhexs wrote: post #85
LatteLazy wrote: post #66

Such a waste. A once great nation dragged into obscurity by OAPs, handout addicted farmers and racists.

Not wanting to be in the EU makes you a racist how exactly? Are we using the word “racist” in the same way as it was applied in the last four years in America?

It’s the opposite; being a racist (and particularly a credulous racist) makes you likely to oppose Europe. Remember this, for instance? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farag...

And also the whole narrative that everyone in Romania and Turkey was going to move to the UK, and so on. Race-baiting was a big, important component of the Brexit campaign.

Obviously not everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist by a long shot, but it’s naive to think that it wasn’t a factor.

Re: UK formally leaves European Union after 48 years

#150

Post by austinjp »

vimy wrote: post #114
Arnt wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU vote in Norway almost 30 years ago was very, very different from the British Brexit affair. Luckily for us Norwegians, we didn't suffer from anyone like Mark Francois, for example. Of course you could say that Brexit has nothing to do with British culture.

The point is that European culture is not linked to the European Union.

I'd say they're linked insofar as the European Union was created by and continues to evolve through European culture.
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