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How neutering dogs became the norm

moosenuggets.substack.com

141–150 of 233 posts

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post a url corresponding to a search of YouTube videos as if it were a source backing up your argument.

The hundreds of videos of the said dogs attacking people, the detailed news reports and expert interviews are not a source to back an argument?

The correlation is that for some reason trashy people prefer pit bulls, they don’t train their dogs, and then the breed gets a bad reputation.

They have immensely powerful jaws, but are no more likely to use them than any other breed. There is an unfortunate increase in damage per instance but this again is no fault of the breed.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#142

As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line. 1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection…

My father-in-law had an intact Labrador Retriever show dog who escaped over a high fence and swam across a large river in order to visit a bitch in heat. They found him days later, filthy and with some minor injuries. The instinct to reproduce will drive dogs to do crazy things.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#143
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inference is obvious, I assume the poster is looking for actual data.

I wonder how you would collect that data.

I suspect a study to prove the exact means of connection is very difficult.

A retrospective study would be easier. Based on a survey of a given vets files (not quite a random sample, but for this case it might be good enough to establish a bias in facts), could trace the incidence rate of 'yard escape injuries' between 'intact' and neutered males, as well as 'intact' and spayed females.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hundreds of videos of the said dogs attacking people, the detailed news reports and expert interviews are not a source to back an argument?

The correlation is that for some reason trashy people prefer pit bulls, they don’t train their dogs, and then the breed gets a bad reputation. They have immensely powerful jaws, but are no more likely to use them than any other breed. There is an unfortunate increase in damage per instance but this again is no fault of the breed.

> There is an unfortunate increase in damage per instance but this again is no fault of the breed.

I don't think 'fault' is really the point -- the question is whether they are more dangerous. The 'unfortunate increase in damage per instance' is a euphemistic way of saying that yes, they are.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#145
It is not the norm where I live: cost is brought up mostly but also guys uncomfortably crossing their legs when you mention it or 'it is not a real dog anymore'. The result: mountains littered with puppies every mating season and then refuges overloaded.

Every few years, some fund pops up to pay vets to do free neutering and spaying: that really helps most of the problem as most will do it then; just wish the other owners could be fined if their dogs causes the stray dog issue to rise again (which costs money; there is dog catchers, the pound, refuges, effect on tourism etc).

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#146
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to preface this by saying: veterinary science is just that, a science. Your vet has spent their career, hopefully anyways, learning what the best veterinary minds know about veterinary medicine. And your vet is probably a whole lot more trustworthy than random comments on the internet like this one. But with that said, I agree completely with the above: citation sorely needed. Show me the data. One of the firs…

The going joke is that everything we know was true for 8 beagles. Veterinary studies are often small in scale and not made of representatives of the whole population. I don't feel like digging through PubMed to back up an assertion like "unneutered dogs are more likely to roam and get hit by car." At best I'll be able to give you a records-review type of study and it's a low quality of evidence. Also, trends don't me…

It's a growing market, though! I work in human biopharma clinical research and was recently recruited for a vet med clinical research position.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#147
post #42

As a US veterinarian, I hold a nuanced view of spay/neuter. Nevertheless, I generally recommend it as default for most pet owners, as it goes along with their expectations of what their pet's life will be like. People who elected to leave their dogs intact are often shocked by something down the line. 1. Pyometra. Dogs do not have menopause, but they may stop cycling. When they do they can develop a uterine infection…

> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners. Is there evidence of a causal relationship here?

Most people I personally know/knew didn't spay/neuter their pets when I was growing up.

I've seen animals do some absolutely bonkers crazy stuff while in heat. I know an intact female pet that literally broke a screen window to jump out said window in order to mate. This was a second story window, yes she jumped out of a second story window!

So I don't doubt it for even a second.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hundreds of videos of the said dogs attacking people, the detailed news reports and expert interviews are not a source to back an argument?

The correlation is that for some reason trashy people prefer pit bulls, they don’t train their dogs, and then the breed gets a bad reputation. They have immensely powerful jaws, but are no more likely to use them than any other breed. There is an unfortunate increase in damage per instance but this again is no fault of the breed.

Anyone dealing with dogs knows the pit bulls are FAR more dangerous than other breeds. Their physical strength and jaw strength in particular make them potentially deadly.

Can a poodle kill you? In some edge cases maybe. Can a pit bull do it? For sure.

This is correlated with lower rates of spay / neuter as well. So you have an animal that is naturally MUCH more dangerous, and then you have that correlated with folks who LIKE that they are so dangerous and the bad outcomes multiply.

Want a poodle? Here you go. Want a pit bull? You should have to prove you are going to be able to train, care, etc for them and will keep them on leash in situations where they could kill others (ie, children's playground - yes - people bring off leash pitbulls occasionally - NOT a good situation).

BTW - same rule should apply to guns. Want a .50 cal automatic machine gun? You should need some kind of extra license given the danger you now pose.

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#149
This article has a lot of "pseudostatistics" - that is, making broad statements like "Rather than a dog surplus, what we have is a shortage of pups" with little or no analysis to back it up.

For example, there are many animal diseases that used to be an instant death sentence for any dog or cat that ended up in a shelter with disease (and still are in most places in the US). Some pioneering shelters have developed programs that now save huge numbers of animals with these diseases. For example, parvovirus in puppies is very contagious and it's a grueling course, but puppies that survive parvo have normal lives and can be great dogs. Austin now saves around 500 puppies a year with parvo that end up in shelters. Most other cities still kill these animals, so adopting proven programs to save them would go a long way to ending any supposed "shortage" of animals.

Parvo is just one example:

https://www.austinpetsalive.org/programs/ringworm-adoption-c...

https://www.austinpetsalive.org/programs/parvo-puppy-icu

https://www.austinpetsalive.org/programs/feline-leukemia-ado...

Re: How neutering dogs became the norm

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a terrible source. Please see. https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/ Personally I prefer the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Dog Breeders Association to a single biased source that is basically the qanon of breed specific legislation. The only reason that I have slightly more respect for dogsbite is at least dogs actually have teeth whereas the pizza place in f…

You link a pitbull lobbying group as defense? There are plenty of pit bull lobbies. Most of them come from no-kill background because pitbulls are the most common dogs in shelters. There is no national register for dog bites. You can see how coronavirus tracking goes to show how much of a feat that would be. All you can do is track evidence in newspapers and in online media. Interview ER docs, plastic surgeons, etc.

Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association

Co-occurrence of potentially preventable factors in 256 dog bite–related fatalities in the United States (2000–2009)

Objective—To examine potentially preventable factors in human dog bite–related fatalities (DBRFs) on the basis of data from sources that were more complete, verifiable, and accurate than media reports used in previous studies.

Design—Prospective case series.

Sample—256 DBRFs occurring in the United States from 2000 to 2009.

Procedures—DBRFs were identified from media reports and detailed histories were compiled on the basis of reports from homicide detectives, animal control reports, and interviews with investigators for coding and descriptive analysis.

Results—Major co-occurrence factors for the 256 DBRFs included

    Absence of an able-bodied person to intervene (n = 223 [87.1%])
    Incidental or no familiar relationship of victims with dogs (218 [85.2%])
    Owner failure to neuter dogs (216 [84.4%])
    Compromised ability of victims to interact appropriately with dogs (198 [77.4%])
    Dogs kept isolated from regular positive human interactions versus family dogs (195 [76.2%])
    Owners’ prior mismanagement of dogs (96 [37.5%])
    Owners’ history of abuse or neglect of dogs (54 [21.1%])
Four or more of these factors co-occurred in 206 (80.5%) deaths. For 401 dogs described in various media accounts, reported breed differed for 124 (30.9%); for 346 dogs with both media and animal control breed reports, breed differed for 139 (40.2%). Valid breed determination was possible for only 45 (17.6%) DBRFs; 20 breeds, including 2 known mixes, were identified.

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Most dog bite–related fatalities were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these. Study results supported previous recommendations for multifactorial approaches, instead of single-factor solutions such as breed-specific legislation, for dog bite prevention.

The source is the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association which is more reliable than one whack job living out her fantasy of being paid real money to pursue an anti pit bull crusade which began with a lie.

She was herself the victim of a dog bite which she has related several times giving different stories each time adding theatrics over time. Eventually the dog walker which had the dog on a leash lost control of her dangerous animal which dragged her, shook her, and tried to rip her throat out. The circumstances, aftermath, injuries, and other party, and even her original statement contradict this.

What actually happened is that while jogging she ran up behind the dog walker on a very narrow walk alongside a wall without giving any verbal indication of her intentions.

When she tried to go around the dog and walker she would have passed within inches of the dog startling it. The dog which had no history of aggression bit the woman on the arm twice bite and release not bite and shake, not drag through the grass, no attempted bite to the neck.

She sustained soft tissue damage to the arm fell and broke her arm in the fall.

She sued the owners home insurance collecting a substantial settlement for her own incompetence and insisting on the prompt killing of the family pet.

She then went on to make a career out of being a professional victim and duping people like yourself. She is a terrible human being and it would be great if you stopped spreading canine qanon around here and elsewhere.

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