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Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#141

Post by gspr »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #93

This may be a bit sudden. But instead of heaping scorn on them, I just feel grateful for the millions they must have invested in OSS. It's unlikely they are out to hurt anybody. I'd guess the vast majority of people there, now and in the past, would love to be able to continue doing so. So, if anyone can come up with the name for whoever bought them, a sale that was probably done with little alternatives already, the…

> This may be a bit sudden. But instead of heaping scorn on them, I just feel grateful for the millions they must have invested in OSS. It's unlikely they are out to hurt anybody.

I think a lot of the scorn is directed at their lying to people's faces, rather than at their discontinuing their service. And I'm not talking about lying in the past ("3 years ago you promised me free CI forever") – I'm talking about lying right now, after the decision was made (as pointed out by others).

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#142

Post by progval »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #93

This may be a bit sudden. But instead of heaping scorn on them, I just feel grateful for the millions they must have invested in OSS. It's unlikely they are out to hurt anybody. I'd guess the vast majority of people there, now and in the past, would love to be able to continue doing so. So, if anyone can come up with the name for whoever bought them, a sale that was probably done with little alternatives already, the…

I'm also thankful to Travis for teaching me what CI is and make me set up CI for every new project instinctively; even if it's not always Travis anymore.

Without their free + painless service, I am not sure I would have got that reflex, as I couldn't afford it when I started programming; and I feel like they also created a culture where OSS contributors expect every project to have some kind of CI.

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#143

Post by progval »

blihp wrote: post #102
geerlingguy wrote: post #6

Many people are saying to those of us who _haven't_, for one reason or another, gotten completely off of Travis CI, "the writing was on the wall" or "you can't expect free forever." And I think they're missing the gravity of the situation—there were (and are still) a _ton_ of OSS projects out there that are configured to use Travis CI for their testing and build pipelines, and it's not free to switch to something els…

Because people absolutely refuse to learn from history. The gravity of the situation is the same as it always is: OSS projects have created a hard dependency on a commercial 3rd party service because it was given to them for free. Free service is now going away and they're screwed because they have no plan 'B'. The issue isn't that they haven't gotten off of it already, it's that they likely never should have gotten…

> OSS projects should not have dependencies on non-OSS infrastructure unless they are prepared for this eventuality.

I don't think that's the issue. Large parts of Travis are open sourc, but no one uses it because they are too complex to set up; and there are better self-hosted solutions than Travis.

Travis was attractive, because it was free hosting, not just software. And worked with just a few clicks

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#145

Post by outsomnia »

progval wrote: post #143
blihp wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people absolutely refuse to learn from history. The gravity of the situation is the same as it always is: OSS projects have created a hard dependency on a commercial 3rd party service because it was given to them for free. Free service is now going away and they're screwed because they have no plan 'B'. The issue isn't that they haven't gotten off of it already, it's that they likely never should have gotten…

> OSS projects should not have dependencies on non-OSS infrastructure unless they are prepared for this eventuality. I don't think that's the issue. Large parts of Travis are open sourc, but no one uses it because they are too complex to set up; and there are better self-hosted solutions than Travis. Travis was attractive, because it was free hosting , not just software. And worked with just a few clicks

If it's not selfhosted, or it's not FOSS, it's not under your control and can go away any time.

It's certainly easy to get into these lassaiz-faire ad-hoc remote free solutions, it's harder to maintain your own CI, but if quality and consistency is important, it's not that hard.

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#146

Post by dessant »

koolba wrote: post #82
dessant wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unexpected behavior caused by any bug could print the variable to the build log, there is no need for malicious code to end up with compromised secrets.

Malicious code could also print the ROT13, hex, base64, or even selectively fail tests so that every failure is a bit of entropy. Filtering secrets from logs only protects accidentally dumping your environment to a log Because you left in an echo $SECRET . It doesn’t stop a determined attacker who can run arbitrary code.

Masking secrets is not meant to defend against malicious code, but mitigates a class of issues in the build system and the software you build that could lead to inadvertently leaking secrets.

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#147

Post by Liquid_Fire »

mschuster91 wrote: post #127
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"including no company funds any part of it, including paying people to work on it(?!)" JetBrains open source licenses have a similar restriction https://www.jetbrains.com/opensource/ > Your project is NOT sponsored by a commercial company or organization and does NOT have paid employees > Your project does NOT provide commercial services (such as consulting or training) around the software, and does NOT distribute pa…

For what it's worth their flagship IntelliJ is, for personal use, only ~23€ a month, and phpStorm ~9€ a month. Projects which have a sponsoring company or consulting/training/paid-tier income around them can afford to pay that .

The personal use license can't be paid for by your employer though. (Though if a company is paying you for the OSS work, you can probably afford a personal license)

> A Personal license is an option for private individuals who purchase a license with their own funds, and solely for their own use. Personal licenses are not to be purchased, refunded or in any way financed by companies.

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207241075-What...

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#148

Post by johannes1234321 »

ergocoder wrote: post #133
dtech wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't change the fact that being bought by a PE firm is a very bad sign for customers of the business. For something easily switchable like your favorite retail shop you can - and should if you don't want the collapse to hasten - continue as before, but for something your business depends on like CI it's a huge red flag that you should switch to a different supplier.

> Doesn't change the fact that being bought by a PE firm is a very bad sign for customers of the business. Is it worse than company collapsing though? With that, you might not even have a warning sign.

Well, a collapse gives you certainty.

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#149

Post by mjevans »

mschuster91 wrote: post #126
lmm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting the cause and effect backwards. Private equity generally buys companies that are already in rough shape and tries to turn them into something profitable (which often means a lot of cost cutting). That's an important part of the ecosystem. If anyone's harming society it's the VC ecosystem that gets companies hooked on free money and encourages them to burn it as fast as possible, blocking sustainable bu…

> If anyone's harming society it's the VC ecosystem that gets companies hooked on free money and encourages them to burn it as fast as possible, blocking sustainable businesses from playing in that space. It's even worse: VC "burn money" is way too often actively destroying and undercutting existing businesses in the guise of "disruption", and then once the competition is dead, prices rise to way higher than they eve…

At the same time some of those market disruptions need to happen and the incumbents were probably never going to get there.

A single, open source, interface app needs to exist for co-coordinating 'radio cabs' and it needs to work for _all_ cities. Ubur/Lyft are somewhat close, but that market platform and co-ordination would never have happened without them.

Hotels / housing are an issue because of predatory monetary practices. As a society (at least in the US) we don't have planned community retirement, so anything expensive becomes a defacto investment vehicle. This leads to a preference for any policy that inflates the cost of housing, which directly leads to NIMBY and combines with anti-sprawl measures to constrain supply. At that point basic econ101 applies and prices just keep going up without ever correcting (anywhere jobs exist).

Social media and the other MITM attacks are probably symptoms of the same issue; yet I'm not quite sure what a true root cause and solution are. It might require personal AI secretaries or something similar that are interest aligned with the individual users, rather than any corporation or government. (To facilitate schedule arrangements that are optimal.)

Re: Travis CI is no longer providing CI minutes for open source projects

#150

Post by mschuster91 »

mjevans wrote: post #149
mschuster91 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anyone's harming society it's the VC ecosystem that gets companies hooked on free money and encourages them to burn it as fast as possible, blocking sustainable businesses from playing in that space. It's even worse: VC "burn money" is way too often actively destroying and undercutting existing businesses in the guise of "disruption", and then once the competition is dead, prices rise to way higher than they eve…

At the same time some of those market disruptions need to happen and the incumbents were probably never going to get there. A single, open source, interface app needs to exist for co-coordinating 'radio cabs' and it needs to work for _all_ cities. Ubur/Lyft are somewhat close, but that market platform and co-ordination would never have happened without them. Hotels / housing are an issue because of predatory monetary…

> At the same time some of those market disruptions need to happen and the incumbents were probably never going to get there.

It is always a question: is this "disruption" worth the cost - minorities and the poor cut off from taxis, illegal hotel operations robbing people (again, in many cases poor and working class) of their sleep, and trust in democracy as a whole?

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