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Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#141

Post by baq »

hexis wrote: post #61
AlexandrB wrote: post #53

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

Maybe desktop Linux needs more people like you and me to help make it better?

It needs more people willing to pay software developers, UX designers and testers to improve the Linux desktop, starting with the kernel, graphics drivers, ending in consistent set of apps. This is a (ten) billion dollar endeavor.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#142

Post by vinay427 »

gabereiser wrote: post #119
jjoonathan wrote: post #5

"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.

Tim Cook's Apple Inc is really a nightmare. Sure we have sleek shiny laptops and devices that are amazingly powerful but at what cost? I still haven't found a trackpad as good as MagicTrackpad sadly otherwise I'd ditch the MacBook Pro. To be fair to Apple though, it's their OS, they can do what they want and we agree every time we update MacOS or iOS. It's crazy to me that we basically only have 3 phone device choice…

What is distinct about the direction of Tim Cook's Apple Inc compared to any previous Apple Inc?

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#143

Post by frankjr »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #26
rootusrootus wrote: post #15

Hasn't this always been a bit of an issue? Apps with root privileges have been able to get around Little Snitch for as long as I can recall. Some software relies specifically on that ability.

...no, I don't think they could. Is there an example you're thinking of? Up until recently, Little Snitch monitored network traffic in kernel space.

Not OP but one example is bridged networking. I discovered this while trying Parallels Lite from the App Store. I was used to being prompted for every connection attempt VirtualBox was making but I was not getting any when using Parallels. I contacted Little Snitch's support and they acknowledged the issue but said that there's not much they can do because Little Snitch works on "application level" and Parallels uses bridged mode of networking that Little Snitch is unable to intercept. Note that the Lite version of Parallels doesn't require any kernel extensions (even on older macOS releases).

If an application is running as root, you are similarly able to use the lower level APIs and completely "bypass" Little Snitch. I cannot find a good alternative source for this other than the Security and Privacy Guide [0]:

It is worth noting that these firewalls can be bypassed by programs running as root or through OS vulnerabilities (pdf), but they are still worth having - just don't expect absolute protection.

[0] https://github.com/drduh/macOS-Security-and-Privacy-Guide#th...

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#144

Post by pmarreck »

AlexandrB wrote: post #53

Both major consumer OS vendors seem hell-bent on bringing the OS layer under their complete control. As a power user, it's very frustrating. Meanwhile "desktop" Linux still kind of sucks, just like it did 10 years ago. I don't have much hope of seeing a compelling, unified UX out of Linux in my lifetime.

I'm kind of glad Linux doesn't have a "unified UX". I mean, the MacOS of 15+ years ago iron-fisted it, and it was right most of the time, but glaringly not in a few cases (simple examples, the ability to reshape a window by any corner or edge was conspicuously absent on Mac for a long time, as was the right mouse button).

Best to let a bunch of free ideas duke it out.

Currently using Ubuntu 20.10 beta (releases in 2 days!) on ZFS on root, and got all my dev and games working, so I'm pretty happy with it thus far. The ability to roll back to any point at which an apt install was made or attempted via zsys' integration with ZFS snapshots is nice. And ZFS is just... as glorious as an enterprise-class filesystem, basically. And all "for free".

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#145

Post by goatinaboat »

Skunkleton wrote: post #69
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you host pi-hole on a cheap VM and set it to be your DNS-over-TLS / DNS-over-HTTPS endpoint?

This assumes that your software is doing what you asked it to do, not what some bigco or malware wanted it to do.

If I remember correctly Chrome already ignores your DNS and does it’s own over HTTPS.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#146

Post by nix23 »

seg_lol wrote: post #135
curiousgal wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation will never be ahead of corporations. Regulators always play catch-up. Seeing how, at the end of the day, all these company care about is profits, hitting them where it hurts will make a difference. That being said, Linux is available, and it's perfectly usable by people who would be bothered by Apple's dev policies.

These companies would be happy to lose the customer and the vars that complain. Unless you can convince 100x more people than yourself to loudly and dramatically move to something not as user hostile, just voting with your dollars will not work, there isn't enough competition.

It's not about voting, it's about the tech YOU use. You want apple? Buy it, if not dont. I really dont care what others use.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#148

Post by kccqzy »

ProAm wrote: post #139
gabereiser wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook's Apple Inc is really a nightmare. Sure we have sleek shiny laptops and devices that are amazingly powerful but at what cost? I still haven't found a trackpad as good as MagicTrackpad sadly otherwise I'd ditch the MacBook Pro. To be fair to Apple though, it's their OS, they can do what they want and we agree every time we update MacOS or iOS. It's crazy to me that we basically only have 3 phone device choice…

Would you use a good trackpad that connects via USB or bluetooth? Its a real question because I see a lot of comments about people not leaving the Macbook because of the trackpad even though they dislike the rest of the laptop? Seems like something that could be a product?

No you wouldn't. It's not about the trackpad hardware (Apple sells a separate Bluetooth trackpad after all), but it's about the software.

Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur

#149

Post by ucosty »

ProAm wrote: post #139
gabereiser wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook's Apple Inc is really a nightmare. Sure we have sleek shiny laptops and devices that are amazingly powerful but at what cost? I still haven't found a trackpad as good as MagicTrackpad sadly otherwise I'd ditch the MacBook Pro. To be fair to Apple though, it's their OS, they can do what they want and we agree every time we update MacOS or iOS. It's crazy to me that we basically only have 3 phone device choice…

Would you use a good trackpad that connects via USB or bluetooth? Its a real question because I see a lot of comments about people not leaving the Macbook because of the trackpad even though they dislike the rest of the laptop? Seems like something that could be a product?

You can already buy an external Magic Trackpad from Apple (https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ2R2Z/A/magic-trackpa...). Not terribly useful for a laptop unless you want to set up at a desk.
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