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Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

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Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#141

Post by mariojv »

elevation wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to see Signal's reputation undermined in technical circles by the shortsighted zeitgeist. Signal's constitutional emphasis on usability supports user demographics that no other security product can attract. My elderly relatives use Signal now instead of Skype. This drew in other family members who just wanted to video chat with grandma and grandpa. Matrix will never win markets like this. When tech n…

I have to agree. I've convinced a non-technical group of friends to use this over SMS for group chat, and their experience so far has been delightful. Even without getting into encryption, they're delighted at its support for threading, any emoji as a reaction, and its non-corporate origins.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#142

Post by sa1 »

est31 wrote: post #32
saagarjha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an uncharitable view, and while it might be true in some cases it is certainly not always the case. Many times the people who point out issues with Signal do it not because they think they want to show off, but because they honestly are frustrated that no product seems to meet their needs and Signal has specific issues that matter to them. I honestly believe “Signal is stupid for relying on phone numb…

I remember the outrage quite well when Facebook started spamming ads to the phone numbers of people who were forced to give Facebook phone numbers for "security" purposes and promised to never been shown ads on those numbers. Or when Jack Dorsey's Twitter account was hacked because of SMS 2fA. Last, phone numbers are general identifiers used in the search boxes of various data collection tools. Maybe you can search b…

The phone number was the only thing that was preventing them from keeping metadata such as usernames on their servers(until they introduced the PIN). It was a tradeoff between two concerns.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#143

Post by _-___________-_ »

rpdillon wrote: post #104
nullc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> update agility makes Signal infinitely superior to every existing or proposed federated network. Translation: Signals ability to forcefully change the software and protocol out for users without any consent (much less informed consent) renders it functionally immune to any criticism or review because any aspect of the protocol could be changed ('improved') at a moments notice. I think signal is a fine insecure mess…

You mention Signal is fine as an insecure messenger. I'd be very curious if you know of an app that is fine _secure_ messenger. Do you know of one, or is your point that nothing that's made generally available can be considered secure?

If you can convince your contacts to use it, and they're on platforms with good clients, XMPP with OMEMO ticks all the boxes, and has since 4-5 years ago.

It's properly federated, with a diversity of client and server implementations (something that will likely never happen with Matrix due to the excessive complexity and poor design of the protocol), servers are easy to deploy and don't need a lot of system resources, and it has strong security.

The main issue is that there are only a few really good clients, since network effects convinced everyone to use inferior (but better marketed) messaging systems. Conversations (on Android) is excellent, though.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#144

Post by im3w1l »

novok wrote: post #35
ryukafalz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When tech nerds nit pick Signal's implementation, they ignore that the unfederated nature of Signal limits the damage these decisions can cause. It limits the damage that some decisions can cause, but exacerbates others. Signal only allows the first-party client to connect to its network; if the developers were legally compelled to add a backdoor into that client, users would have few options. Its security depends…

Signal is OSS and you can start your own fork & network if you want to. App publishing platforms not having a good binary signature verification system is the orthogonal issue that you're bringing up, that would in many ways apply to matrix for most users too. Most will never bother to sideload it.

Reddit is (was?) open source without federation just like signal. Reddit used to be pro free speech. Now they are banning people and communities like the_donald and brag about how deplatforming works. People can create their own little ghettos but it's inconsequential and no one uses them.

It's not a stretch to imagine a repeat. That moxie will brag in 10 years about how much he is banning people and how well it works. I wonder who will be unpopular in 10 years..

EDIT: Or he might hang himself like Aaron Schwartz.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#145

Post by DSingularity »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #63
elevation wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to see Signal's reputation undermined in technical circles by the shortsighted zeitgeist. Signal's constitutional emphasis on usability supports user demographics that no other security product can attract. My elderly relatives use Signal now instead of Skype. This drew in other family members who just wanted to video chat with grandma and grandpa. Matrix will never win markets like this. When tech n…

In general, I agree. However, their decision to force PINs broke Signal for one of my non-technical contacts, to this day (despite them supposedly offering an opt-out now). This person opens Signal, gets some weird confusing modal dialog, and is now stuck. There is supposed to be a way to opt out without having to set and remember a PIN now, but I was unable to guide this person to find it, and I can't exactly travel…

Sgx is broken. Why do people not know this?

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#147

Post by dybber »

elevation wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to see Signal's reputation undermined in technical circles by the shortsighted zeitgeist. Signal's constitutional emphasis on usability supports user demographics that no other security product can attract. My elderly relatives use Signal now instead of Skype. This drew in other family members who just wanted to video chat with grandma and grandpa. Matrix will never win markets like this. When tech n…

My biggest annoyance with Signal is that when I send an SMS, people with Signal on an Android will not reply back with an SMS but with a Signal message. It doesn’t make any sense that I don’t get replies on the same channel as I send.

This is a big usability no-go for me an the reason I’m not using Signal anymore. Don’t interfere with other messaging systems like SMS.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#148

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

elevation wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to see Signal's reputation undermined in technical circles by the shortsighted zeitgeist. Signal's constitutional emphasis on usability supports user demographics that no other security product can attract. My elderly relatives use Signal now instead of Skype. This drew in other family members who just wanted to video chat with grandma and grandpa. Matrix will never win markets like this. When tech n…

I imagine it was even more frustrating for the eavesdroppers when they could no longer listen in on the top secret discussions with your grandparents. The eavesdroppers will not give up easily though; grandparents everywhere must stay vigilant.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#149

Post by dybber »

dybber wrote: post #147
elevation wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to see Signal's reputation undermined in technical circles by the shortsighted zeitgeist. Signal's constitutional emphasis on usability supports user demographics that no other security product can attract. My elderly relatives use Signal now instead of Skype. This drew in other family members who just wanted to video chat with grandma and grandpa. Matrix will never win markets like this. When tech n…

My biggest annoyance with Signal is that when I send an SMS, people with Signal on an Android will not reply back with an SMS but with a Signal message. It doesn’t make any sense that I don’t get replies on the same channel as I send. This is a big usability no-go for me an the reason I’m not using Signal anymore. Don’t interfere with other messaging systems like SMS.

The only way to avoid this seems to be delete your Signal account, if you just uninstall the app these contacts will still try to reach me (reply to my messages), but the messages will not be delivered as SMS as long as my account exists.

Re: Moxie Marlinspike has a plan to reclaim our privacy

#150

Post by DenseComet »

dybber wrote: post #149
dybber wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest annoyance with Signal is that when I send an SMS, people with Signal on an Android will not reply back with an SMS but with a Signal message. It doesn’t make any sense that I don’t get replies on the same channel as I send. This is a big usability no-go for me an the reason I’m not using Signal anymore. Don’t interfere with other messaging systems like SMS.

The only way to avoid this seems to be delete your Signal account, if you just uninstall the app these contacts will still try to reach me (reply to my messages), but the messages will not be delivered as SMS as long as my account exists.

That seems reasonable enough. It seems like its there to prevent downgrade attacks.
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