Won’t Subscribe • Hacker News Board

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#141

Post by skocznymroczny » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

jeremiahlee wrote: post #114

I think the Web Monetization API currently incubating as a proposed W3C standard would provide the experience you are desiring. Consumers establish a wallet provider and install a browser extension (for now, until the standard is formally adopted). When a Web Monetization HTML tag is encountered, the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content. Content creators can then…

"the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content."

This sounds bad. Websites will have even more reason to delay you with slow scrolling, filler text, popup windows just to make you stay on the website longer. Kind of like subscription based MMORPGs have slow travel times, long character leveling and a lot of grind to make you play longer.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#142

Post by eitland » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

jeremiahlee wrote: post #114

I think the Web Monetization API currently incubating as a proposed W3C standard would provide the experience you are desiring. Consumers establish a wallet provider and install a browser extension (for now, until the standard is formally adopted). When a Web Monetization HTML tag is encountered, the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content. Content creators can then…

> When a Web Monetization HTML tag is encountered, the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content.

Will it empty my wallet as I attend an emergency?

Will we see an uptick of sleazy tactics?

At least for articles I ask: make it inexpensive for providers and simple for me. I pay them for articles, they show me articles, preferably easy to download as pdf.

I'd probably pay a few tens more pr year for regional or global news as well as quality blog posts. (I already subscribe to the local newspaper and one national newspaper and I'm forced to pay a few hundred for the national broadcasting.)

But like Tim I am not going to add more subscriptions unless they are just like Spotify, - and even then I think that will be a bad deal for both me and the publishers.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#143

Post by flexie » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #112

Bring back traditional advertising. No user profiling, no retargeting, no data collection. Pay for exposure and not clicks. Problem solved. Micropayments is a red herring. Print newspapers use to cost what, 50c a piece? And that included an absolutely massive printing, sales and distribution infrastructure. It is preposterous that digital publishing would cost more.

Developers cost a lot more than typographers and delivery boys and you need a lot of them to run a modern online media. A developer on staff is sort of like a subscription that the newspaper pays.

The way to bring back advertisement to newspapers is to use antitrust rules and to start taxing search engines and social networks. When Facebook or Google runs an ad for my local gym, it is taxed in some remote tropical island (where it's usually not taxed at all). When my local newspaper runs the same ad, it's taxed locally. Basically, where I see the ad.

I don't like advertisement in newspapers more than the next guy but that was how our democracy worked. News media got paid. With that money they could do journalism. Now, most of that money goes to a handful of companies that do very little to keep a check on politicians.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#144

Post by srg0 » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

jagged-chisel wrote: post #55

boplicity wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever heard of sales and marketing?

Sales and marketing don’t get me past that annoyance that sends me to a competitor.

As long as the competitors are no better, there is little risk.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#145

Post by skocznymroczny » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:07 AM UTC

alexmingoia wrote: post #100

hnhnsomething12 wrote: post #59

What exactly are the news publishers even providing these days? They aren't a trust authority and they aren't a distribution platform. The internet undermined the first and replaced the latter. The future could be readers having a direct relationship with authors, and necessary infrastructure "unbundled" as it were. Author pays a non-partisan fact check service to accredit what they say. With proper accreditation the…

I would go as far as to say the only thing that made newspapers relevant was distribution. The readers have a direct relationship with authors now. They follow them on Twitter, YouTube, blogs, etc. Authors of news are no longer full-time journalists, but everyone online. Everything is news and everyone is an author. Why pay the NYT to tell you what people will tell you on Twitter? Why pay a local paper to tell you ab…

"Why pay the NYT to tell you what people will tell you on Twitter?"

So that I get to know what I should think about it...

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#146

Post by Nextgrid » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:08 AM UTC

ako wrote: post #122

jeremiahlee wrote: post #114

I think the Web Monetization API currently incubating as a proposed W3C standard would provide the experience you are desiring. Consumers establish a wallet provider and install a browser extension (for now, until the standard is formally adopted). When a Web Monetization HTML tag is encountered, the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content. Content creators can then…

It solves the problem only partially: newspapers can't live from small payments on popular articles only, they need bundling to generate enough volume. Same thing can be seen with music industry: spotify doesn't pay enough per play, so artists are now told to use spotify as marketing, and make money from performances. Not sure what a newspaper performance would look like.

> newspapers can't live from small payments on popular articles only

Printed newspapers were surviving just fine despite selling for a few bucks despite it being a physical piece of paper that needed to be printed & delivered on very tight schedules.

The same model should be applied for the web - the price point is already proven to be affordable enough for the majority of the market, and the lack of logistics would generate higher profits.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#147

Post by mixedbit » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:09 AM UTC

How about the Kickstarter model: you don't pay to access an already written article, but fund a campaign for a newspaper to investigate a particular topic. The newspaper would create a list of topics they could investigate along with required budgets. This would promote investigative journalism, which can be very expensive.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#148

Post by wodenokoto » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

flexie wrote: post #143

ricardobeat wrote: post #112

Bring back traditional advertising. No user profiling, no retargeting, no data collection. Pay for exposure and not clicks. Problem solved. Micropayments is a red herring. Print newspapers use to cost what, 50c a piece? And that included an absolutely massive printing, sales and distribution infrastructure. It is preposterous that digital publishing would cost more.

Developers cost a lot more than typographers and delivery boys and you need a lot of them to run a modern online media. A developer on staff is sort of like a subscription that the newspaper pays. The way to bring back advertisement to newspapers is to use antitrust rules and to start taxing search engines and social networks. When Facebook or Google runs an ad for my local gym, it is taxed in some remote tropical is…

> Developers cost a lot more than typographers and delivery boys and you need a lot of them to run a modern online media. A developer on staff is sort of like a subscription that the newspaper pays.

That's quite amazing. Then what was the whole point of going online (broadly speaking), if not to decrease delivery cost of articles?

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#149

Post by rocqua » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

jeremiahlee wrote: post #114

I think the Web Monetization API currently incubating as a proposed W3C standard would provide the experience you are desiring. Consumers establish a wallet provider and install a browser extension (for now, until the standard is formally adopted). When a Web Monetization HTML tag is encountered, the browser starts streaming micropayments every second while you are engaging with the content. Content creators can then…

I truly hope they shy away from paying for 'engagement' and at the very least make it a conscious decision for the user to pay for 'access'.

We already have a lot of people and bad techniques dedicated to driving 'engagement' on platforms like facebook and youtube. These are not good for the users. Having many more providers strive to keep our attention for as long as possible is very much not what I want.

Besides, the value I get from an article is quite unrelated to my 'enagement' with the article. At least with facebook / youtube. It makes _sense_ because every second I engage is another possibility to show me an add / pump up their stats. But if I am going to be paying for an article, I kind of want maximum oomph per minute spend reading the article.

Please don't let the newspapers growth-hack their way into getting more monetization payments. Please just let me pay per article or subscribe if that is what I want.

And whatever happens, don't let my browser start spending my money without my explicit consent. If every second my browser is on is gonna cost me money that will give me shittons of anxiety

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#150

Post by Nextgrid » Mon, Sep 28, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

kevsim wrote: post #135

ricardobeat wrote: post #112

Bring back traditional advertising. No user profiling, no retargeting, no data collection. Pay for exposure and not clicks. Problem solved. Micropayments is a red herring. Print newspapers use to cost what, 50c a piece? And that included an absolutely massive printing, sales and distribution infrastructure. It is preposterous that digital publishing would cost more.

I think if the world switched back to traditional advertising (which on the web for me means contextual targeting) and we stopped allowing third party ads to run a bunch of JS, I'd be willing to switch off my ad blockers. Until then, I'm afraid these publications won't be get paid for my eyes/clicks.

Another problem with online ads vs traditional media is the lack of human review.

I know I can trust ads that are shown on public transport or in a major printed magazine/newspaper to not be a fly-by-night scam, malware or bullshit dropshipping operation.

On the web, I know I can not trust anything because none of it is reviewed, the ads change depending on the time of day and who looks at them (targeting) and stuff like Taboola/Outbrain are running their entire business on churning out obnoxious content.